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John Matthews



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1986
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: BRING BACK OPEN CLASS IN SPRINT RACING Reply with quote

Open class attracts the kind of folks that will stay up all night trying to figure out the best combination of components and modifications to stay competitive. I'll venture to say this is a more committed racer that will stay with the sport longer and be more involved with their club or organization.

Stock class engines are anything but stock and building a good one is far more expensive that modifying something to produce the same or better power (I have a little experience here).

Easykart was a great class but it suffered from the same issues of any "stock" class because you could get your motor re-sealed. Figuring out the chassis was fun though and once we got it nailed we could beat an Indy 500 winner, in TaG class, on his own track in fully legal Easykart trim.

It's great to give beginners a place to learn where they don't have to worry about getting the last .001 hp from their engine because it really doesn't matter at that point. However, when we had open class you really had something to shoot for if you were running stock or super stock. The guys and gals running opens not only had tons of power, they knew how to use it.

Karting is one of the only sports where a beginner can start off at the top as long as they have enough money. We need our clubs to bring back some rationality by requiring drivers to start with low HP and hard tires so they actually learn how to drive. Also if people have to work through progressively higher formulas to get to the upper levels it will give them a reason to come back next season instead of just selling their barley used shifter at a big loss.

BRING BACK OPEN CLASS IN SPRINT RACING

JMHO,
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Tim Pappas



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 791
Location: Burkina Faso,

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patrick slattery wrote:
Tim and Steve, do you believe we should go back to open fuel also. Sad

I personally like that is more about the driver than the motor.


I don't think we need open fuel. I need to keep the few brain cells I have left. I don't think we need to be extreme and have a totally open class. That wasn't my point. My point was that a set of sensible more open rules than the current stock/spec/sealed classes that we currently have would not be any more expensive. It was also that there is an irony that we have traded the perceived expense of "built" engines for a lot of chassis hoopla.

Racers will spend what they spend. Take one thing away and they will buy something else.
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Jimmy McNeil



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1453
Location: United States, California, visalia

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had an open class up till last year and it died out, G1. You could pretty much do whatever you wanted to a cr125. I think the biggest turn out at a pkc event was 2.

Quote:
the powers that be are just protecting the innocent kart racer from his own uncontrollable urge to spend money yet they construct a rule structure that allows unlimited combinations of axles, different alloys and volume wheels, hubs, steering components, seats, and a host of other expensive chassis tuning components all of which cost considerably more than any little velocity stack or air filter cup would cost... or pipe for that matter.
Worse yet, the deep pockets racers show up with multiple chassis that cost $5K each to pick and choose for the track and conditions.


If you bring back open engines, they will still have multiple 5k chassis, $200 axles etc etc and now would have two or three 15k engines on top of that.
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John Matthews



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1986
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimmy McNeil wrote:
We had an open class up till last year and it died out, G1. You could pretty much do whatever you wanted to a cr125. I think the biggest turn out at a pkc event was 2.
<snip>


Um.... open formulas pretty much work by specifying the max displacement and/or a displacement/weight formula, not the model of engine. The G1 class sounds like a way to accommodate people with cylinders that aren't legal for stock Honda, probably motors built when shifters were just getting started?

Way back in the day you could pick whatever engine you could get your hands on and modify it. There's a chance to do that now with all the different TaG engines that have cylinders out of spec or just aren't competitive anymore. Also, as people want move up from clones there's a good opportunity for 4 cycle open as well.

Over on the dirt oval side of karting the UAS http://www.unlimitedallstars.org/index.html is continuing to grow (54 qualifiers from all over the country for the Grand Nationals!) They've got a formula for running just about any type of engine you can think of and lots of great builders coming up with innovative ideas. There's a certain type of person this appeals to, probably someone like Art Ingles would have loved it Wink


Cheers,
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Jimmy McNeil



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1453
Location: United States, California, visalia

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
open formulas pretty much work by specifying the max displacement and/or a displacement/weight formula, not the model of engine.


Now that you mention it, I think you could run different types/brands of moto engines in the class.
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Steve O'Hara



Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 1062
Location: United States, California,

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the subject of fuel, I strongly favor methanol for kart engines.
Again, the contemporary karter has no knowledge of the benefits and effects of running methanol but the arguments against it have largly been nullified by the event organizers requiring the racers to run expensive spec racing gas.
It makes more power, extends engine life and is a pure substance so it is easy to tech.
I'm not in favor of "anything goes" when it comes to fuel as many of the popular additives are dangerous but specifying 100% methanol and a spec oil is an easy switch from gas.
I first started running methanol in my karts in 1968 when I was 13 years old and I still use it in my vintage McCullochs to this day. I have no idea why so many people are so intimidated by something that was the standard 40 years ago and even a Jr. high school kid could deal with it.
Of course I should not discount my previous experience with it at a younger age... it's all we used in our Cox .049 powered tether cars when I was 10 and 11 years old LOL
Still nothing as sweet as the smell of alky/castor burning two cycle engines!

Steve O'Hara
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Paul Makarucha



Joined: 11 Jun 2002
Posts: 859
Location: United States, New Jersey,

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^Only issue with methanol is it burns clear... That's a rather large issue.

Also water spigots would/should be setup around the tracks so fires can be extinguished.
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Greg Wright



Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 2494
Location: United States, Indiana, Clermont

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Makarucha wrote:
^Only issue with methanol is it burns clear... That's a rather large issue.

Also water spigots would/should be setup around the tracks so fires can be extinguished.


Fires are much less likely with methanol than gas, I'm not aware of any number of fire problems with gas burners.
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John Matthews



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1986
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People....

Go to a dirt oval kart race, you'll see most of the field running methanol without any issue. Tire prep, now that's another story Embarassed

If I was structuring an open class it would allow gas or methanol, no illegal or dangerous substances. Once again it only takes a quick look across the field to the dirt oval world to see how this works....

Once you start requiring anything to be "spec" you've lost the spirit and intent of open class. We did it for years without any major issues. The only thing you really need to do is make sure it's an "expert" class so novices don't sign up thinking they'll win by out powering everybody.

Cheers,
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JIM SILVERHEELS



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 587
Location: United States, Massachusetts, LUDLOW

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:29 am    Post subject: READ THIS Reply with quote

Interesting reading.. I think they might be F.O.S as far as saying one of the byproducts of combusting alcohol is o2 though.

http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/ctrp_1201_alcohol_fuel_basics/viewall.html
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