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JIM SILVERHEELS
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 590
Location: United States, Massachusetts, LUDLOW
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 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:47 pm Post subject: Velocity stacks |
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Any rational idea why the WKA doesn't allow velocity stacks please? Was doing a carb today and it just hit my noggin why they weren't allowed.
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Clark Gaynor
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 534
Location: United States, Pennsylvania,
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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I have no idea, but WOW, I remember those on the top of a modified Mac 40 with duel carbs!!!
Ah, never mind, I'm showing my age!!! 
Clark Sr. The really old one! |
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:10 am Post subject: |
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Bring back the open class!!!!
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC. |
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Walt Gifford
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 4303
Location: United States, South Jerrrsey,
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:23 am Post subject: |
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Because karting is all about driver ability with equal equipment not how much money you can spend on R&D.
Gif 
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40 years karting experience |
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John Mulvihill
Joined: 14 Oct 2001
Posts: 1144
Location: United States, New York,
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:56 am Post subject: |
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IIRC, the WKA headed off the "Velocity Stack of the Month Club" just as it got started.
I can see it now......... You'd have to buy a velocity stack for each track to be competitive (NOT) and then, of course, you'd have to buy a new pipe to match the velocity stack (NOT)....... But that's the way it would be.
John
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JIM SILVERHEELS
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 590
Location: United States, Massachusetts, LUDLOW
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:38 am Post subject: Mulvy |
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John, are you saying a velocity stack would change the pipe characteristics? Sumtin I didn't think about, if so.
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Don't get stuck in someone else's discarded chewing gum with your thought process. |
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Jeff DeMello
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 2213
Location: United States, Pittsburgh Pa,
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:20 am Post subject: |
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MFG cup has to run an airbox (silenser) for noise..
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Jeff DeMello
Emmick F125 Pavesi |
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Paul Makarucha
Joined: 11 Jun 2002
Posts: 861
Location: United States, New Jersey,
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Mulvy |
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| JIM SILVERHEELS wrote: | | John, are you saying a velocity stack would change the pipe characteristics? Sumtin I didn't think about, if so. |
Exhausts are designed/'tuned' to make peak power at a desired RPM. Intakes are the same. Change one, technically need to match the other for maximum performance.
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Do you have any special rituals when the helmet is concerned like many have? - "I wipe it so that I can see better." - Kimi |
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Chris Hurst
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 570
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Walt Gifford wrote: | Because karting is all about driver ability with equal equipment not how much money you can spend on R&D.
Gif |
Point made and I agree with you, but why isn't there an open class for the guys who want to spend the money? Would be pretty cool to see a kart when the rules all go away... |
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Steve O'Hara
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 1063
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:01 am Post subject: |
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Right, the powers that be are just protecting the innocent kart racer from his own uncontrollable urge to spend money yet they construct a rule structure that allows unlimited combinations of axles, different alloys and volume wheels, hubs, steering components, seats, and a host of other expensive chassis tuning components all of which cost considerably more than any little velocity stack or air filter cup would cost... or pipe for that matter.
Worse yet, the deep pockets racers show up with multiple chassis that cost $5K each to pick and choose for the track and conditions.
Modern kart racers are suckers for the idea that kart racing is about equal equipment and "all about driving ability". The sport has never been more about the equipment than it is today... if it was about equal equipment in order to make it all about the driver everyone would be required to run the same chassis, axle, hubs, wheels, tires etc.
The manufacturers that dictate to the rule makers are smart folks, they have driven the sport in a direction to dumb it down to a level where the great tuners can change an axle in 5 minutes but 90% of the racers don't know how to rebuild a carb with less than a half dozen removable parts.
It's a high tech sport filled with people that don't know how to line up their chain... sad!
Back in the era of "Open" classes there were engine builders all across the country that could take any one of a dozen or more makes and build engines that produced grids at the national level races where the splits between the top drivers were always in the hundredths.
The idea that engine development is less expensive or produces bigger gaps in the competition has never been supported by actual results, just theory. In addition, where the rules have been written to restrict engine development to maintain "equal" results, history has shown the result has been just the opposite with the well funded or connected racers accessing "hand picked" parts or complete engines, often at great cost to the racer and great profit to the engine builders that filter the parts and decide who gets the good stuff and who gets the average parts.
Steve O'Hara |
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Tim Pappas
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 792
Location: Burkina Faso,
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| Steve O'Hara wrote: | . The sport has never been more about the equipment than it is today...
Back in the era of "Open" classes there were engine builders all across the country that could take any one of a dozen or more makes and build engines that produced grids at the national level races where the splits between the top drivers were always in the hundredths.
The idea that engine development is less expensive or produces bigger gaps in the competition has never been supported by actual results, just theory. In addition, where the rules have been written to restrict engine development to maintain "equal" results, history has shown the result has been just the opposite with the well funded or connected racers accessing "hand picked" parts or complete engines, often at great cost to the racer and great profit to the engine builders that filter the parts and decide who gets the good stuff and who gets the average parts.
Steve O'Hara |
The grids always seemed to be fuller in times of more open engine rules. Some of that may be due to coinciding economics, but it is what it is. 15-20 years ago it was all about the engine and not so much chassis set up. Now everyone wants spec/stock engines but think nothing of the stack of $200 axles in their trailer. The prices that people pay for a "top winning handpicked cylinder wearing" Rotax or Stock moto is as high or higher than an open moto or ICC was.
And the notion that kart racing is or should be all about the driver in equal equipment is horsepucky. Unless you want to run Easykart, there will be differences that people will use and exploit. We have done our best to dumb down society to the lowest common village idiot and karting is no different. If you want it be be all about you, take up track and field. Why stupify the rest of us so you can "feel" like you have an equal chance. If you took a grid of kart racers from a club level to the national level and put them in Easykarts, with few exceptions the same guys would be the fast guys and the same guys would be the slow guys.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be rules and karting shouldn't be F1, but it is racing and building/tinkering/tuning equipment is part of racing. Once they take away everything short of checking tire pressure, I will go back to trying to kill myself boat racing where crazy is still allowed. |
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Greg Wright
Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 2499
Location: United States, Indiana, Clermont
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Steve O'Hara and Tim Pappas. Bravo, just bravo. Very well said!! 
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Greg Wright
Rapid Racing Inc.
NKN Columnist & Host "Karting News Live"
I AM INDY!!
"When in doubt, gas it. It won't help but it ends the suspense." |
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patrick slattery
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 787
Location: United States, Ohio, cleves
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:15 am Post subject: |
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Tim and Steve, do you believe we should go back to open fuel also.  |
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patrick slattery
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 787
Location: United States, Ohio, cleves
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Tim and Steve, do you believe we should go back to open fuel also.
I personally like that is more about the driver than the motor. |
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Greg Wright
Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 2499
Location: United States, Indiana, Clermont
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| patrick slattery wrote: | Tim and Steve, do you believe we should go back to open fuel also.
I personally like that is more about the driver than the motor. |
Unfortunately it's more about the chassis than the driver.
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Greg Wright
Rapid Racing Inc.
NKN Columnist & Host "Karting News Live"
I AM INDY!!
"When in doubt, gas it. It won't help but it ends the suspense." |
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