Dive Bomb pass

Justin Martin · Joined: 27 Mar 2012 Posts: 329

Exactly.... This "dive bomb" pass has been used since day 1 in racing and is a very effective strategy.

If there is no contact and there is still a crash, them the person getting passed is an idiot and didn't realize his line was no longer there. You have 2 options when getting passed like that, try to hold your line and the passer may end up running off on the inside, if he doesn't truly have the speed for the over take, or the guy getting passed runs off the track because he never realized his line was gone.

I experienced this in the moto world, in the entry level classes people get pissed for getting stuffed, however they Learn real quick that in the faster classes it happens all the time.

Troy V Smith · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:42 am Post subject:

Hhmm...Interesting opinions, although I don't agree, in most circumstances. It has always been my opinion (yea, just an opinion) that it is the overtaking driver needs to make any and all passes safely, cleanly and fairly. It doesn't much matter if the guy in front is slower, or "all over the place" or even a complete jerk. If you can't get around the guy without taking him out, or anyone "out", then I see two possible issues - one, you're not as good as you think you are, or two the guy in front is better than you give him credit for. Racing doesn't mean "slower guy" move over"!

And I am curious Justin - at what point is a "hop" an acceptable excuse for bad judgment? And are you referring to the inevitable "hop" after the contact is made, or did I miss something?

I love all the guys i race with, but I'd have to say, this pass is an example of coming into a corner too hot and just "hoping" for the best.
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Greg Wright · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:18 am Post subject:

I don't know Troy, in the video the leader got off the track and lost a lot of speed then turned in as the faster car pulled alongside.

Maybe we need to define what a "dive bomb" pass is..

The definitions might be entertaining at the very least, sort of like some of the TV commentators who upon seeing a car slide up in front of another and take the line away calling it a "slide job". That wasn't a slide job unless he made contact, what they just saw is called a pass!!
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Chris Livengood · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:44 am Post subject:

Michael Knauf · Joined: 31 Oct 2011 Posts: 58

I think if you are all over the track and not in control of your vehicle you are a danger to yourself and others.

It is real hard not to hit someone who can't hold their line, because the line you were aiming for is no longer available.

Put it this way. If someone is taking themselves out, they can't be blamed if there is contact on a pass, whether it is a 'dive bomb' or not.

It is the responsibility of the driver passing to make a clean pass, but how can you predict chaos? And the funny thing a lot of times these trouble drivers are the ones who never show up to practice... just go out and race! Best you can do sometimes is just hope they crash themselves and YOU don't get blamed for it. I've been blamed for that one before! 3 kart lengths behind and they wreck and somehow you spun them... hmmm...

Seems to me there are a lot of people out driving more kart than they can handle...
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Justin Martin · Joined: 27 Mar 2012 Posts: 329

Troy V Smith · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:55 am Post subject:

Yea Guys - not tossing up the debate as to what is or isn't a good or bad pass. As Greg stated, I suppose everyones idea of what a "dive bomb" pass really is, is highly "different". In the video i provided, it is a tough call (for me anyway) - although my "perspective" was a bit different.

I must admit, only a lap before, I tried my "version" of a dive bomb pass, but missed the shift through the apex, thus it was a loss anyway - but I made sure I was clear at the apex first. As far as the "can't hold their line" - sounds silly, but it is common in our shifters due to the Burris tire rule - tough to make em stick somtimes.

Check out my on board video of the same race - man we were having fun and racing hard!!!!

http://youtu.be/G_rW8lFozkQ
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Tyson Henry · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:20 pm Post subject:

Honestly, you guys are all all-over the place. Looked like a racing incident to me.

Greg Wright · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject:

Peter Zambos · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:11 pm Post subject:

Chris Hurst · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:00 pm Post subject:

Tim Doll · Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:22 pm Post subject:

As others have mentioned, it depends a bit on what you call a 'dive bomb' pass. But in my book, while sometimes being perhaps a bit desperate, 'dive bomb' isn't necessarily unsafe or unfare.

If you are faster over a full lap, but significantly slower in a straight line, what most would call a 'dive bomb' pass may be your only realistic option at a pass. Been there - done that - years ago I ran an open class for a few years where I was down on HP to most of the field, but was way faster through the corners. If I could get in front I could pull away, but making the passes could be HARD!

At least in my book, no matter how far back you are when you reach the braking zone - if you can get inside and be basically even when you reach the 'normal' turn-in point (and be under control) - it's a good pass. If they turn in early to block and there is contact - it's their fault. Yea, I know all about the 'it's the overtaking drivers responsibility to make a safe pass' rules, but I also take a dim view of overt blocking. Again, in my book, if a driver makes an overt blocking move after the pass has been initiated, resultant contact is the responsibility of the blocking driver, not the overtaking driver.

Of course, what constitutes 'overt' is open to debate. Shocked

BTW, in my previous life I was a race official at several IKF Grand Nationals, so my opinion mattered Twisted Evil

Tim
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Russell Stevens · Joined: 15 Oct 2012 Posts: 100

I guess I'm too new to this form of racing. You out-brake a driver, carry more speed through the corner, and you take a opening on the inside line (as seen in some of the examples); in other forms of motorsports it's called a pass. If you bump the guy in front and physically push him off of his line to get by it's a dirty pass. How much contact is ok is often left up to the race officials, and "pitside conversations". The Supernat videos that I've been watching show a lot of drivers behaving as if the karts are bumper cars. Shoving each-other around with the chrome horn, and side pods. That kind of behaviour gets you a rolled black at our little ole sprint track. Even on a good pass, sometimes grip is lost and accidents happen. The grip these karts have is like a lightswitch. It doesn't take much to have that switch flip off when on the edge.
My .02 FWIW
Rusty

Stewart Willis · Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 368

Troy that was awesome... dive bomb followed by got punted.. Karma.
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