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Kyle C Smith
Joined: 15 May 2010
Posts: 122
Location: Germany, Hessen, Hofheim
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 Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Can |
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| Mark Erpelding wrote: | | Kyle, As others have said we are not F1 we do not have the budgets to make changes so quickly. Others in this class and myself have spent many thousands of dollars to get competitave at the WKA level. I promice you it is not as easy as bolting a new pipe on. It means hours of dyno time = money! Dyno time eats parts = money, then when you think you might have it figured out you go test = money, Then when you blow up engines testing = money. And maybe the chassis will not work well with the new configuration= money. You might feel diferent if the money was comming out of your pocket. I am not sure it is worth racing WKA when you invest tens of thousands and they change the rules, with this short of warning and at this time of year. It is wait and see for me. It takes us much longer than the Big money teams to recover from a rule change like this! |
I know exactly how you feel, Robert Bujdoso and I worked hard together closely with Sean Cook to develop the Rok TT, and then when we tested and got every little bit out of it, making it very competitive, what did WKA do, add weight, add weight and add more weight? Making the engine totally worthless. So yes, I do know how it feels to be ripped off. However what WKA is trying to accomplish is working, and I agree with it, to develop the ladder system better, maybe not best for the current karters, but in the long run should benefit the everyday karter and help kart counts.
With anyone who thinks I am comparing F1 to karting in terms of money, I really think you simply don't see the point. The point is that all of your other competitors have to deal with this, its a restricter. My guess is in less than half a year, the engine builders will have slight updates, from there it will be normal business as usual. Its not like theyre yanking the engine out from underneath you, for people running at the top WKA level, what is one more rebuild? You were going to get your engine refreshed before Daytona anyways. If you don't like what WKA is trying to accomplish, get out of the series, thats what I did, I don't have any desire to run WKA because for the most part its a dog and pony show running off of fumes, and are there to please the sponsors because thats all the money they have to put the series together.
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Kyle Smith
www.kylesmithmotorsports.com
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patrick slattery
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 787
Location: United States, Ohio, cleves
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Thats fine Kyle, but the people that are affected are complaining, your in Germany and not affected and am I wrong in saying not a jr aged driver if you were going to race WKA? |
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patrick slattery
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 787
Location: United States, Ohio, cleves
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Can |
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| Mark Erpelding wrote: | | Kyle, As others have said we are not F1 we do not have the budgets to make changes so quickly. Others in this class and myself have spent many thousands of dollars to get competitave at the WKA level. I promice you it is not as easy as bolting a new pipe on. It means hours of dyno time = money! Dyno time eats parts = money, then when you think you might have it figured out you go test = money, Then when you blow up engines testing = money. And maybe the chassis will not work well with the new configuration= money. You might feel diferent if the money was comming out of your pocket. I am not sure it is worth racing WKA when you invest tens of thousands and they change the rules, with this short of warning and at this time of year. It is wait and see for me. It takes us much longer than the Big money teams to recover from a rule change like this! |
Mark, as I have told you in person, I will share with you any information that I get concerning the senior pipe. If you will look in a http://www.ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=118592
I gave a report of our dyno testing. This was with a standard Yamaha Can motor, which is what I believe will be what you need.
In fact I will offer to you the opportunity to come to my shop and do all the testing you want on my chassis dyno and see for yourself.
I hope you take up my offer.
Pat |
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Kyle C Smith
Joined: 15 May 2010
Posts: 122
Location: Germany, Hessen, Hofheim
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| patrick slattery wrote: | | Thats fine Kyle, but the people that are affected are complaining, your in Germany and not affected and am I wrong in saying not a jr aged driver if you were going to race WKA? |
No you're not wrong. It's because they're not supportive of the bigger picture. Will there be extra expense right now? Yes, but as said before, most people going to a WKA race are getting engines refreshed anyways, so where is the extra cost between a few updates. A restrictor is not going to require a brand new head, etc. Maybe new boring, etc? MAYBE, most likely some card tuning. Its slowing down the classes yes, but at the end of a man cup weekend the person that beat you, is going to have beaten you on putting all pieces of the puzzle together, including driving and setup. If your engine builder really can not get it figured out, or you are compelled to think that the only reason you may not be winning is engine, then switch engine builders? People do it all the time, and again at the cost of a refresh. This isnt flipping the classes upside down, its just a small update, and I really do not understand what all the fuss is about. For people making this sound like this is a huge expense...isnt the restrictor like 20$, and a new pipe maybe a $100 or so? Correct me if I'm wrong, but when most of these people are dropping hundreds dollars a weekend on sets of tires, how is this breaking the bank. Were talking about people running at the national level, the parts are relatively inexpensive if you put it in perspective of the other expenses people are already undertaking. The engine builders job is to test and find what works on their engine, so why is everyone saying that they have to endlessly test for a little restrictor. Do the people need a track day or two to maybe dial things in just perfectly....maybe yes, can this be done on old tires....yes! For the last time, this is not turning the classes on their heads. I really do not see why anybody is fussing about this. Lynn Haddock, the person who actually works hands on this engine, I believe wrote earlier that the pipes produce a similar power band (don't require all this testing that everyone is talking must be done) and easier on the engine.....HMMMM easier on the engine....more time between rebuilds=saved money in the long run....why are people complaining?
I have yet to see any front runners come in and complain, because they know that they simply have to bolt on the new restrictors, go out there and it will be like normal, just slower.
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Kyle Smith
www.kylesmithmotorsports.com
www.facebook.com/KyleSmithRacing
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patrick slattery
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 787
Location: United States, Ohio, cleves
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Kyle, your in Germany, most front runners are choosing not to run period,
at least that is what they have vowed.
Pat |
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Ron Gordon
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder what would happen if WKA gets tired of all the whinning, complaining and bashing of thier rule changes and makes Dayton a non-dropable race, being its thier Indy 500 in a way?
It sounds like they are trying to do something about the speed disparities between the junior & senior classes (as complained about by its members, over and over), but when they find something that actually works, the complaining starts...
It's not like they are taking away a long standing engine package and forcing everyone in that particular class to buy a totally brand new engine package just because it will bring in big time sponsor money and can help a failing venture within the organization....
Its like a few have said on here, its not like only one or two people have to make this change, its the front runners, the middle runners and even the back runners making this change...it all comes down to who can make the change work for them first....I seriously doubt that Mr. Horn and his driver is the only WKA junior team out there testing and if he is I look for that 72 kart to be on top in Daytona.
Ron
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Dan Rudd
Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 198
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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I've been trying to absorb all this info while sorting the various opinions and theories.
Something that keeps coming back to me is that we will be racing on both a club level and an occasional national level. There will be some local clubs which won't switch and of course the bigger races will. With that in mind we're now going to have to have motors (and other various other components) for can and pipe motors.
I could be happy with either the can or the pipe but now I see myself having to have both.
Dan |
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Mark Erpelding
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 137
Location: United States, Indiana, Ft Wayne
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:11 am Post subject: Can |
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I do not understand why they don't just put 3 hole cans on the JR'S with no restrictors and leave the seniors with the 4 hole can. Then no engine work would result from the change. And then ladder systey people would be happy.
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We spend our money on Racing, Whiskey, and Women ~ The rest we waste! |
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jeff grose
Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1249
Location: United States, Florida, cocoa
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Ray Mcik
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 531
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Yep Jeff,
| Quote: | Q. Why did WKA feel it was necessary to reduce the speed of the Junior classes by implementing a restricted air flow filter cup?
A. As explained in the Oct. 10 Pit Board release, a reconstruction of the ladder system is needed. The step up from the Sportsman category was too large and the step from Junior to the comparable Senior classes was a step down in speed.
After a study of many different methods that could be used to reduce the performance of the Junior classes, we determined thru dyno, flow bench and track testing that the restricted air cup did the job needed.
This method is a very low-cost solution that works well in the field with only adjustments to the carb settings. The September 17 on-track testing at New Castle Motorsports Park produced the needed results in speed to position the Junior classes properly between the Sportsman and Senior classes. |
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Ohio Valley Karting Association
WWW.OVKA.COM |
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Ray Mcik
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 531
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Can |
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| Mark Erpelding wrote: | | I do not understand why they don't just put 3 hole cans on the JR'S with no restrictors and leave the seniors with the 4 hole can. Then no engine work would result from the change. And then ladder system people would be happy. |
I found this to be interesting,
| Quote: | The noise level concerns originated from the music industry and the incoming claims on hearing loss of concert workers and others.
The clear message was that racing organizations needed to begin programs, rule changes, etc. to prove we are aware of and working on the noise issue.
In 2012 WKA began this “noise reduction” effort in the National Road Racing Series. Rule changes were implemented that eliminated the PP Can (four-hole SSX can) laydown-enduro classes. WKA also canceled the use of the four-hole can in the Junior Enduro and Yamaha Can Sprint classes, replacing the four-hole can with the quieter SBX muffler that has been used for years in the Yamaha Sportsman laydown classes.
In 2013, WKA has made its first round of rule changes in Manufacturers Cup, canceling the use of the four-hole can in Yamaha Senior and replacing it with the pipe. Additional changes are forthcoming in 2014 to continue our efforts toward noise reduction in our 2-cycle series. |
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Frankie Schaffier
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 467
Location: United States, Ohio, Fostoria
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Dan Rudd wrote: | I've been trying to absorb all this info while sorting the various opinions and theories.
Something that keeps coming back to me is that we will be racing on both a club level and an occasional national level. There will be some local clubs which won't switch and of course the bigger races will. With that in mind we're now going to have to have motors (and other various other components) for can and pipe motors.
I could be happy with either the can or the pipe but now I see myself having to have both.
Dan |
For the senior pipe.... You DO NOT have to have a different engine set up! You can switch back and forth with out changing anything except perhaps clutch settings and gearing.
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Burris Racing www.burrisracing.com
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Jean Stafford
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 324
Location: United States, Ohio, Dayton
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Mark Erpelding
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 137
Location: United States, Indiana, Ft Wayne
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:27 am Post subject: Can |
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I do not see them putting silencers on NHRA Top Fuel Dragsters or on Nascar.. Time to tell BIG BROTHER to get out of our lives! We are racers and this is what WE like. How loud is a clone when they backfire every time they let off of the gas pedal?
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We spend our money on Racing, Whiskey, and Women ~ The rest we waste! |
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Tim Reed
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 93
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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<<insert picture of a dead horse being beaten here...>>
The good news is that if you have been working in the music industry and considering taking the plunge into karting, your ears will now be as safe in karting as they were in the music industry!! So nothing should be holding you back now!!
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