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Stewart Willis
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 368
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 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Its pretty tall. But only a bit heavier than the C-51. The LO206 is WAY too heavy for a KK.
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Stewart Willis |
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jorge menchu
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 27
Location: United States, California, fresno
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:23 pm Post subject: a '50 collecting dust |
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I have one of these sitting on a Top Kart collecting dust. My boy decided he did not like sitting next to a running engine.
If anyone is interested contact John Motley. He can tell you more about it than I can. Let him know Jorge from Fresno sent you. |
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Howie Idelson
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 1343
Location: United States, California, Pacific Palisades
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| Stewart Willis wrote: | <snip>
The difference that HPD is offering from the $400 version is that they have a "Complete" bolt on package that is factory sealed.... I dont know anything about four strokes. But, with the cases sealed it will prevent a lot of the tampering.... It also has all of the linkages, and engine mount adapter that make it a totally bolt on solution. I know that John Motley and Troy McCall are working hard to get this product to market. It is BADLY needed and I |
Is Honda working on this themselves?
The thing I like about the Briggs LO206 program is that it truly is "factory sealed", that is the work is done at the factory by the manufacturer and once the seals are cut it never gets "sealed" again.
There are some very talented engine builders out there and if the sealing program isn't rock solid you will see the same thing happening here as with the C51 except only the guys who are close to the "factory" will have the "good" engines. In my experience "claimers" just adds to the problems at the track, I'd much rather see a good tech inspection program where officials can determine if engines are legal.
What Briggs does differently is to parts sort their engines for consistent pop-up, cam timing and valve lift. Then they seal just the bottom end so you can adjust the valves, etc. But the most important thing is they provide a spec sheet with every LO206 they sell so you know exactly what you have. Pop-up makes a huge difference in any small engine and even a thousandth or two will cause big variances in peak HP. That's why the very best engines cost so much, the builder goes through dozens or hundreds of parts to get just the right combination. This kind of work doesn't come cheap but it makes a huge difference and the direct involvement of the manufacturer goes a long way in ensuring a level playing field.
Also, the PVL ignition with rev-limiter effectively eliminates any really advantage even if you could get past the hologram seals. I don't usually see any improvement from modifications on my dyno with a stock Animal until it gets above 6000 rpm, that's why the 6100 limit for the non-junior LO206.
JMHO,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC. |
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Stewart Willis
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 368
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:21 am Post subject: |
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The seal is put on at Honda Performance development.. Interesting question about the tank being on top. i would imagine that it is just a gravity feed. Besides the aesthetics of being taller than we are used to, It does not look too bad..It is a few pounds heavier than the C51..
We raced it this weekend and had a blast. Probably 20 or 30 people stopped by my pits to chat about the Honda. There is definitely some big interest in the powerplant.
We are working on gear ratio. My initial impression is that it just sounds effortless out there. It has pretty bad bottom end. But the midrange and top end are great.. The power band is very strong through high speed turns... But, at the standing start that we run in Phoenix, we get left behind by 15 kart lengths. I think this is a product of the current clutch that is engaging at 2400 rpm being too low.... Troy at HPD has been monitoring these things very closely. I think that the final version will change kid karting in america... it is a very well thought out concept.. I think that if the comer could have a rev limiter at 10,500 or so, that we would not be at this point, it would continue to be the standard. But, the grenade that it has become has caused all of us to search out alternatives, including the LO206, which is WAY too big for a kid kart in my opinion..
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Stewart Willis |
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Stewart Willis
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Additionally, John, I think the claimer rule will prevent people from investing too much in any individual engine. I believe that HPD will also have the ability to claim and replace any freak engines out there.
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Stewart Willis |
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Stewart Willis wrote: | | Additionally, John, I think the claimer rule will prevent people from investing too much in any individual engine. I believe that HPD will also have the ability to claim and replace any freak engines out there. |
Everything depends on the parents.
Claimers can work but watch for two or three guys that just keep claiming the "good" motors among themselves. If the motors are sealed and equal there's no reason to have a claimer rule, it just invites hard feelings and fist fights 
If the engines are built as close as the LO206 then there will be very little reason for people to cherry pick. But, it only takes one dad that's willing to buy a dozen motors and dyno them all to start driving the prices up. This is where a rev-limiter can help since you can cut off the juice before you hit the power curve. Making engines equal is pretty challenging not to mention that many folks don't realize corner exit speed is largely responsible for one driver "pulling" the others at the end of the straight.
JMHO,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC. |
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Stewart Willis
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 368
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| John Matthews wrote: |
Claimers can work but watch for two or three guys that just keep claiming the "good" motors among themselves. If the motors are sealed and equal there's no reason to have a claimer rule, it just invites hard feelings and fist fights
JMHO, |
Right. But, when you look at the Mini Rok, which is being used for tag Cadet at SKUSA events, you will see that they have had a claimer rule in effect for two years. There has only ever been one engine claimed... So, there doesnt seem to be much abuse there... also, the new claimer rules limit people to one claim (or maybe two) per year...
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Stewart Willis |
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