AIM Lambda Install

Roger Miller · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject:

Consider this a pointed black flag - please moderate yourselves

Larry Dobbs · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:30 pm Post subject:

Hey Joe,
I just got a Honda det counter and in combination with an LED light, I plan to watch for the detonation as well as total hits on the counter. I plan to watch EGT to make sure that the temp is increasing on acceleration. For example, during morning practice I will lean out the main jet until the det counter starts incrementing and the LED starts flashing (has a delay to prolong the flash so that I can see it) a few times, and the EGT starts to climb slower or stops climbing at the end of the straight. If it flashes at part throttle then I will change the needle, if it flashes at other times I will check for other problems. Then in the race if it starts flashing alot I can pull in and find the problem instead of sticking my motor.

joseph hollinger · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:35 pm Post subject:

This is the one that I bought: http://aprilsystems.co.uk/product/kart.htm.
I have no idea if it works (yet).
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A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. -- Winston Churchill.

Chris Reinhardt · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject:

Eric Gossard · Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 16

Overkill No
Nice Yes
Might want to consider mounting it closer to the motor. It should give you a more accurate/consistant reading. LOL I liked my stetup till I saw yours. Real clean!

Tom Rickard · Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 56

Interesting argument, egt vs lambda..

My experience is that most engine builders / tuners focus too much on getting the jetting "correct", and verify this by the tune at maximum rpm. EGT is useful for this. (so is Lambda).

If you want to get the quickest lap time around the track, and more importantly if it is a tight track, it is better to focus on the way the carby mixture transitions as the rpm's rise.

EGT is useless for this. Lambda is better, although it is difficult to monitor.

As i have stated in various threads, the way i used lambda was to video a set of lambda tuning lights in conjunction with a tacho. This footage could then be played back, and from corner exit to max. rpm. you can see the mixture go from rich to lean.

On the fly jetting mixture changes aren't always enough to get a smooth transition. (eg. if the mixture is rich at low speed, and you lean off the low jet, you will get a lean dip in the mixture as it transitions to the high jet, even though the high jet is set for optimum mixture at max. rpm.)

Lambda is useful to set up pop-off / lever set up / butterfly position, jet size/position/texture, airbox flow etc. variables that will need to be tested to be able to get your adjustable jets to work the way they need.

It is not possible to use EGT to monitor mixture transition across the rev-range. So why would you bother ? (obvious exception for leaded fuel).

Dave Price · Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:00 pm Post subject:

Hi gents --
Been a long time since i was on this forum , have poked my head in a few times but not relly got involved in any discussions.

I have been manufacturing a product here in Australia for a number of years now which has been very successful. "Supa-Tuna" tuning lights.

Tuning with EGT and CHT are pretty poor choices in tuning, and Lambda sensors ( o2 exhaust) sensors are far superior.

There is no need to go to wide band sensors, simple narrow band sensors work extremely well.

Anyway, if anyone wants to knwo more, then have a read of my user manual on my web page - its downloadable, and well worth a read if you trying to get a "biased" opinion of tuning ( www.supa-tuna.com.au)

Regards
Dave

PS - have sold my lights all over the world now, Karts, bikes, 2 and 4 stroke, water cooled etc etc...including powered hanggliders - with world records as proof of concept !!!
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Supa-Tuna Tuning lights

Greg Lindahl · Joined: 13 Jan 2011 Posts: 271

Hi Dave.
How does your lambda sensor survive oil and TEL in the exhaust stream?

Dave Price · Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:32 pm Post subject:

Hi Greg,
Oil ( 2 stroke) is not a problem, unless you choose to run very rich.

Oil does eventually kill the sensor and they need to be treated as any karting consumabale. I have had repeated use on my karts for in excess of 8 months of racing. Other users have seen better and some worse.

TEL - not sure what you are referring to ?

The biggest killer of sensors is silicon. Engines that have been assembled with excessive silicon that is allowed to burn through the combustion process will coat a sensor and render it useless. Happens in your car also - silicon used as exhaust flange sealant will destroy the O2 sensor quicker than anything.

Regards
Dave
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Supa-Tuna Tuning lights

joseph hollinger · Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:33 pm Post subject:

Dave Price · Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:41 pm Post subject:

Here is a quick look at my lights,
More info can be found on my web page.
Very simple to use on track - display sits on steering wheel.

I use these myself on my Yamaha Kt100S and my Leopard X30 125cc water cooled.
There are massive gains to be found in getting the tuning correct and it does vary depending on the ambient conditions of the day.

EGT and CHT have their uses, unfortunately ( in my opinion) they are useless !! - not trying to offend, but the reason that they are not used in mainstream automotive is because you cant tune effectively off either.

Happy to answer any questions you guys/ gals would like to throw around..

Regards
Dave[/img]
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Supa-Tuna Tuning lights

Greg Lindahl · Joined: 13 Jan 2011 Posts: 271

Dave.
That's quite cool.
I've used lambda sensors before and found that between oil and TEL (lead in fuel) that the very expensive sensor fouled and as it fouled the signal changed, making the data untrustworthy and unrepeatable.
So, I started removing the sensor to make it live longer, which just made the entire enterprise a bit redundant.
Great concept failed by the fact that the lambda sensor was developed for use in a four cycle engine burning unleaded fuel.
Any new findings on your part?

Dave Price · Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:27 pm Post subject:

Hi Greg,
Yeah - unfortunately, lead is also a killer of sensors. It does happen much slower but does kill them over a short period, in the order of around 5 hours of running.
Removal and replacement can provided extended use, and the readings are not affected by the lead as such, but the sensors response slows down.

There are some lead replacement race fuels but i guess largely controlled by what your classes allow you to run.
In Austalia, Karts are only allowed to run Unleaded fuel.

Gotta love the greenies !!!

As for the oil, I have found that the full synthetics offer a much cleaner burn and as a result you get heaps less contamination of the sensor.
Add to that the fact that if you tune the engine for optimum performance, the oil is effectively at a minimum. The better the tune, the longer the life of the sensor.

I also use Narrow band sensors and a company manufactures a "Heavy duty" sensor for me, specifically for use in 2 strokes. This ensures that the sensors live longer in the oily exhaust gas, and resists failures due to vibration. Buying sensors in bulk also reduces my costs to well below normal retail prices - making replacement a little easier on the wallet.

Its interesting, some people will spend thousands on engines, tyres etc, but balk at $70 for a sensor or $20 for a sparkplug.

What does a rebuild cost for an average engine in the US ??
Australia - $700 for a basic rebuild, no damaged parts....

Regards
Dave
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Supa-Tuna Tuning lights

Oscar Biondi · Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:00 pm Post subject:

I've used Dave's Supa-Tuna system and it works really well. The actual O2 sensor won't last very long (about 5 hours) but you can find good quality two-wire O2 sensors at RockAuto for under $15 on sale.

Oscar