Clone Help 911!!!!!!

Robert Lawson · Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 2227

Guys,

I have a few issues with the Honda-Clone transition......

Most everything will bolt right up from the Honda and it's 4:1 reduction clutch were using at the INDOOR karting center.

The crank is too long on the clone (no biggie, I can fix that) but the thread inside the end of the crank isn't metric????

Any idea what bolt type goes in there?????? Is it 5/16-24??????? Are ALL the bolts english??? Leave it to China to only copy parts of the Honda!!!!

Need help now, came in on a weekend to get this on and running and at a stand still!!!!

HELP!!!!!!!

RPM

John Matthews · Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Clone Help 911!!!!!!

Yes, 5/16-24 just like a genuine GX200 (regular style). Don't know what the reduction model takes but for the "replacement" type engines Honda copied Briggs since they wanted OEM's and service centers to use their engines in place of the 5hp model 13 flathead.

Tim Salvino · Joined: 20 Nov 2010 Posts: 261

All the rest of the bolts are metric. Side cover, head, valve cover, tins, etc.

Robert Lawson · Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 2227

Thanks Guys!!!!

Been here all day, pluggin away at it.

Thought I was ready to go until I ran the fuel lines.......no pulse fitting installed!!!!!

Now I know why the carb was in the bottom of the box and not already in place.

Oh well, back tomorrow morning to finish it up and do some testing.

I'll let ya'll knowhow it compares.

RPM

Robert Lawson · Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 2227

Well, I have had a few break-in runs and 1 full on ride with a couple customers as ginny pigs to compare with.

I noticed the added torque right away but didn't seem to notice a top speed gain. After adding the tach it was obvious that the 6.5 Clone was better than our best 5.5 Honda on top by a good 250 rpm's. It just touches 5250 before running out of track.

The tester is not the best handling kart here so with better handling it mat go better yet. I expect once it's completely "loose" it will make more rev's and more speed. This is not a great thing, at least currently. With 18 5.5 Hondas out there it will be an instant favorite....which means it will get wrecked quite often!

Now, it's onward with the durability testing (handing it to the public) and watching it closely to see how it holds up.

I will throtle stop it at the carb until we get more of them online. I also will suggest to the Owner and Manager that they consider these engines on the new fleet......if it holds up to the public abuse!!!!!

One more here to mount up, I have a completely rebuilt & updated chassis wait for me to get to work!!!!!

Thanks Again for the help fellas!!!!

RPM

Frankie Schaffier · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:52 am Post subject:

Robert Lawson · Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 2227

Well it seems the popularity of racing the clone now has it coming without the OEM flywheel and cam. I get it, for "racing" it needs to be done.

I'm in a bit of a different situation here at the indoor facility and don't need or want the added cost of the racing parts....so, I'm looking for OEM flywheels and cams for the new engines coming in now.

I'll put an add in the clasifieds as well but wanted to post here as well.

Anyone wanting to sell off their OEM flywheels and cams please contact me at: f-125@hotmail.com

Thanks guys!

RPM

John Matthews · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject:

Without the governor you're treading on thin ice IMHO, why do you think they come without the flywheel now Shocked

Seriously though I would check with your insurance agent to make sure you'll be covered if one lets loose and hurts someone. There's been way too much documentation on this issue to pretend it doesn't exist.

JMHO,
_________________
John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC.

Frankie Schaffier · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:30 pm Post subject:

Robert Lawson · Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 2227

Frankie,

Please share what kind of RPM you see at the most extreme circuit you have run. I really am interested in knowing what "normal" racing use is as well.

Guys,

Not sure if other indoor kart manufactures offer a clone on new karts but the Stratos brand (USA!) absolutely does. They never mentioned any replacement parts being used in what they call a "Chonda". We have been ordering a few chassis parts from them for years and are looking at their karts to replace our well aged fleet.

Just over a year ago the owners of Andretti karting in Atlanta bought the Stratos brand. They did plenty of testing of the Clone before offering them as an option.

Even at 5/8 throttle the Clone is still a better ride. It may not lap at record time but it still has better throttle response and noticably different sound. You can actually use the throttle (off/on) to help cornering. Where breathing the gas instead of riding the brake on a Honda does little or no good the Clone makes ground on the Hondas using this method.

Yesterday I was breaking in a new Clone unrestricted and I must say that is a ton of fun. Almost like a twin compared to a single! You can drive around the outside of anyone, reguardless of weight, at will. Thats ALWAYS fun!

If your interested go to Kart2Kart.com and take an onboard lap. We have more straight than most places but it's nothing compared to what you see at a proper race track.

Only regular visitors find the full potential of these karts. The off the street driver has a hard time not spinning and never reaches max rev's. Most parties or group resevationists are office folks (no offense!) and have trouble getting within 8 seconds of a good lap. In comparison the league guys qualify within .08 in a 12-14 car field.

I'm running on.....

Thanks for the input, need all the info I can get!

RPM

Frankie Schaffier · Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:19 am Post subject:

Robert,

6,200 / 6,300.. After that they seem to sign off (valves float).

I mailed a stock cam out to you this morning, should be at your place tomorrow or Monday at the latest.
_________________
Frankie

Comet Eagle
Emmick Elite-Parilla TT25
Burris Racing www.burrisracing.com
Stoney Creek Motorsports

John Matthews · Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject:

Robert Lawson · Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 2227

Frankie, thanks man....I got it here last week!

John,

I'm only slightly offended by the use of the word "negligence". Especially in this case.

I made it very clear these engines WILL NOT go over 5K....period! Most of that lap is spent in the 3500-4000 range.

Shame on me for assuming "racing" guys would have a STD flywheel WKA doesn't approve of as being "unused". Ya know, since its "NOT APPROVED" (ie "you can't use it"). My mistake. Rolling Eyes

Just like the legal waiver you and I sign to participate at a racing event the customer here also must sign a waiver understanding they assume ANY risk willingly. And just like you and I, if they do not sign it they do not participate. It's not my area so I'm not educated on the issue of insurance but I do have to take unannounced visits from the State Ride Inspector. The same guy that checks the paperwork on that Tilt-A-Whirl your kid will ride at the nearest strip mall in the Summer.

I have paperwork for each kart in Daily, Weekly and Crash/Wear/Maint form. It's a nightmare, your kart doesn't have 1% the documented history of these karts! Safe? Nothing is "safe" and no one claims so. Is what you and I do safe????? Not by any means.

Anyway, all the indoor manufactures I'm aware of offer a "Clone Package" as an option to the Honda package when buying a new fleet. None of them require aftermarket billet parts to be installed first! ALL indoor gas powered karting centers are using them or changing to them. Not because they can't afford it, not because their cheap......like everyone else out there trying to stay afloat it's an accepted practice now.

You have probably been riding them for years and not even known it! Laughing

Once again, anyone whom has OEM Clone flywheels and Cams (UNUSED that have not been hit with a BFH!) to sell, PLEASE send me a note! I will use TLC installing them. Wink

RPM

John Matthews · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:32 am Post subject:

Sorry to offend you, perhaps I should have said "ungoverned" rather than give a specific RPM.

Best of luck with your efforts, you've obviously thought through everything and have it well under control....

Regards,
_________________
John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC.

Robert Lawson · Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 2227

John,

I'm a laydown shifter guy, this 4 stroke stuff is not in my wheel house and I'm too old to learn it. Thats why I came here, to you guys that use them, for answers to my concerns.

Everyone believes their kart is safe. I believe my kart is the safest at the track. I build every piece of it, and I know each parts age and history.

I treat the indoor karts with the same respect. As a matter of fact the kids that work here think I'm obsessed, take it too seriously......personal.

Bottom line is they are not competition machines, they are HD rentals that get treated as such. There is a much greater chance on any Friday or Saturday night that some jabroni with crash a flywheel off before it breaks from fatigue. That is not my area either.....if so, none of the kids here would have a job.

Maybe I took what you said too personal. At least now you know why.

RPM