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mike prokup
Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 231
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 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:28 am Post subject: rebuuilds |
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nick
I learned my lesson so I will send them in after 1.55 hrs. You can do whatever you want with yours. (Rebuilds)
I sure hope they do not change this class structure. It is the most competitive frustrating racing we have ever done and the most fun.
When the pipe class was attempted, I asked my older son if he wanted to try it...he said all of the good racers are in can class. Competition not speed is what he liked. |
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Greg Wright
Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 2499
Location: United States, Indiana, Clermont
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:18 am Post subject: |
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OK I'll weigh in, I've said many times that having Jr. Drivers going faster than Sr. Drivers is wrong for the future of the sport and frankly just doesn't make any sense.
1 1/2 hours on a Yammie rebuild? That is ridiculous and unneeded!!
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mike prokup
Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 231
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Oops 6 hrs. Sorry. Corrected by my son. |
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Mike Burrell
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 719
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:00 am Post subject: |
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This is a fun read! Especially seeing real experienced and true "leaders" in the karting industry such as Diz & Greg Wright weighing in...
In the 90's, I'd run Yamaha pipes at almost 15,000 RPM in 20 minute club street races (always above 12,000RPM), in 2 classes ~sometimes 3 classes with the same kart (that used to be possible) & MAYBE get a top end during the 10-12 race season. So I would say that engine easily had 6-8 hours on it between rebuilds. Did it loose performance? Maybe, I couldn't tell. The pipe gave it enough power I could compete.
But I guess the question is: why do people "believe" they need rebuilds every 1.5 hours on a Can motor?
Has parts quality gone down?
Are engine builders just trying to make a buck?
Or is it just one of those myths put out by other engine importers to try and get karters to switch?
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Tim Reed
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 93
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Let me offer this... if SuperCan wants to go faster than Junior Can, so be it. Make SuperCan faster. But, please don't keep taxing my wallet by making me buy a bunch of "go slow" parts for my junior. My class ain't broken. If SuperCan is "broken", fix SuperCan. Make SuperCan buy bigger carbs, or wider tires, or make them run at 320 lbs, whatever, sell them 5 hole cans!!! I don't care!
Don't break Juniors as collateral damage. Please. |
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Mark Dismore Jr
Advertiser
Joined: 21 Jul 2001
Posts: 1097
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Tim Reed wrote: | Let me offer this... if SuperCan wants to go faster than Junior Can, so be it. Make SuperCan faster. But, please don't keep taxing my wallet by making me buy a bunch of "go slow" parts for my junior. My class ain't broken. If SuperCan is "broken", fix SuperCan. Make SuperCan buy bigger carbs, or wider tires, or make them run at 320 lbs, whatever, sell them 5 hole cans!!! I don't care!
Don't break Juniors as collateral damage. Please. |
I agree with Tim, don't mess with the Junior classes, they are drawing record numbers and the competition is very even.
IF and it's a BIG IF, you change anything for this supposed need for Senior Can to be faster than Jr can, then put a pipe or bigger can on the Seniors and even then I think it's a stupid idea. 
Mark |
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Mike Burrell
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 719
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Tim Reed wrote: | | Don't break Juniors as collateral damage. Please. |
Collateral damage, probably the best description of a karting problem I've heard in years... This sport tends to "nuke" itself to fix a hangnail.
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Mark Dismore Jr
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Joined: 21 Jul 2001
Posts: 1097
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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If the powers that be are just trying to slow down Juniors here is a VERY simple and VERY cheap way to do it. Make the squish a minimum of .040", .050" or .060" and raise the CC minimum to 13cc or 14cc. You just slowed them down a second or more, they run cooler (which is supposedly the issue ) and the engines will last a lot longer between rebuilds.
Mark |
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Nick Johnston
Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Posts: 910
Location: United States, California, Reseda
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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To me it seems like the problem is too much speed. I started in the cadet classes as everyone does, but when I went to JR's I race JR Sportman, in IKF Terms thats big carb, 3 hole can. This class taught you to be smooth as glass, not hang on for dear lord and punch the throttle.
Kids in karting now are just learning to hold on and stay on track. No need to be smooth when you have a ton of power to get you out of any hole. In 3 hole can, you make a mistake, easy 3-4 spots lost. We call these momentum classes.
So now, they're hauling ass in JR's holding on, and then they go to TaG, where they're really hauling ass, and realllly holding on. Jerking the kart around, pitching it sideways, and generally looking like a tool doing it. While drivers who ran can karts and have half a brain remember to be smooth and decisive with their movements.
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jim rogero
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1030
Location: United States, Florida, naples
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Dismore Jr wrote: | If the powers that be are just trying to slow down Juniors here is a VERY simple and VERY cheap way to do it. Make the squish a minimum of .040", .050" or .060" and raise the CC minimum to 13cc or 14cc. You just slowed them down a second or more, they run cooler (which is supposedly the issue ) and the engines will last a lot longer between rebuilds.
Mark |
At the higher squish numbers and the higher head volume CC numbers, You may find that in order to make the most HP you would be turning the engine 1,000 to 2,000 rpm more. "Last alot longer" doesn't come to mind. |
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mark coats
Joined: 07 Oct 2002
Posts: 500
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Mark,
I agree, the CAN CLASSES ARE NOT BROKE!! Please don't fix them the way that you have fixed the KOMET SENIOR CLASS!! After all they took two swings at the KOMET to fix it! lol WKA has a conferance call tonight, let's see if they listen or fix the can classes!!
They should work on fixing what is broke!!
Mark Coats |
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Mark Dismore Jr
Advertiser
Joined: 21 Jul 2001
Posts: 1097
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| jim rogero wrote: | | Mark Dismore Jr wrote: | If the powers that be are just trying to slow down Juniors here is a VERY simple and VERY cheap way to do it. Make the squish a minimum of .040", .050" or .060" and raise the CC minimum to 13cc or 14cc. You just slowed them down a second or more, they run cooler (which is supposedly the issue ) and the engines will last a lot longer between rebuilds.
Mark |
At the higher squish numbers and the higher head volume CC numbers, You may find that in order to make the most HP you would be turning the engine 1,000 to 2,000 rpm more. "Last alot longer" doesn't come to mind. |
Bet you turn it less. |
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TJ Koyen
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 1415
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Nick Johnston wrote: | To me it seems like the problem is too much speed. I started in the cadet classes as everyone does, but when I went to JR's I race JR Sportman, in IKF Terms thats big carb, 3 hole can. This class taught you to be smooth as glass, not hang on for dear lord and punch the throttle.
Kids in karting now are just learning to hold on and stay on track. No need to be smooth when you have a ton of power to get you out of any hole. In 3 hole can, you make a mistake, easy 3-4 spots lost. We call these momentum classes.
So now, they're hauling ass in JR's holding on, and then they go to TaG, where they're really hauling ass, and realllly holding on. Jerking the kart around, pitching it sideways, and generally looking like a tool doing it. While drivers who ran can karts and have half a brain remember to be smooth and decisive with their movements. |
Yes.
I'm a bit off topic, but I agree there has to be a better transition to get to TaG. From P15 back, you're getting wrecked by kids who don't have a clue how to handle that power and weight.
I like the idea of slowing the juniors down. Put all senior classes on a softer tire, put juniors on a harder tire, just like they do across the pond.
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Frank lowers
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 1509
Location: United States, usa,
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:32 pm Post subject: 3-hole can |
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IKF 3-Hole can was some of the best racing I have seen.
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rusty reynolds
Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Are the Can Classes Broke? |
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| Mark Dismore Jr wrote: | | Gary Osterholt wrote: | | mark coats wrote: | Last year the sportsman class was forced to buy karts, this year make everyone go buy pipes!! What Mark did not say is that the pipe is just the beginning of the cost, motors need reworked, testing needs done. Where does it end??
Mark Coats |
Mark,
How many times a year do you replace the cans? From what I remember the cans break pretty often. Even my one brother that raced cans locally would replace that at least twice a year.
Gary |
The lid sometimes blow out (new lid $14.00) but changing out the entire can? Maybe once a year at most for the average karter, mainly because they feel guilty for thrashing it so long!
Constant rule changes and class updates in the enduro series pretty much killed it off, don't let the same happen to sprint racing! Outside of karting I don't have many job skills!
Mark |
How do you change out those blown out caps that are WELDED ON ?
Did anyone say anything about changes to the 3 hole can classes ? |
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