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Cesar Rull
Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 317
Location: United States, Florida, Pembroke Pines
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joseph hollinger
Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 9475
Location: United States, California, san francisco
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 Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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You're not going to be racing KZ2 at Supernats.
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A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. -- Winston Churchill. |
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Cesar Rull
Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 317
Location: United States, Florida, Pembroke Pines
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ elaborate.. |
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Ken Schilling
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1344
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Cesar,
SKUSA is the sanctioning body that puts on the annual SuperNats. The SuperNats is an annual event which has for many years included the KZ2 class which typically includes many of the top factory team ICC/KZ drivers in the world. It's not a class for the newbie...!!!
KZ2
Engine: ICC
Age: 15+
Weight: 385lbs
Tires: MG-SK spec tires from SKUSA
Fuel/Oil: VP MS98 + Motul Grand Prix 2T
G1 is the same as KZ2 except the minimum age is 30+ yrs old and 405 lbs.
Over the last few years many G1 drivers have migrated to S4 (Spec Honda) leading in part to the discontinuing of the G1 class both regionally & nationally. Hopefully G1 will make a comeback... (that's a discussion for another thread).
See this thread for some discussion of the discontinued G1 class at the SuperNats:
http://ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=117548&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
All this being said, yes there are pockets of ICC/KZ racers throughout the country... but you must look into the tracks and sanctioning bodies that you will be racing with. Not all of your questions can be answered online...
My best suggestion is for you to walk the paddock at a couple of races and talk to as many of the shifter drivers as possible and pick their brains to find out their opinion of which engine is the way to go both short & long term.
You admitted in an above response that you just went to Homestead and saw mostly Honda's with some ICC's. This goes to show you that the Honda continues to grow and would probably be the best choice for you right now.
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Ken Schilling
#21x / S4 / ProKart Challenge (PKC)
SKUSA Data Administrator
Good luck is where preparation and opportunity meet!!!
The opinions I express are mine alone and do not reflect those of any organization of which I am a member. |
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Tom Barth
Joined: 22 Oct 2001
Posts: 1380
Location: United States, Michigan, Waterford
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Joseph H. wrote
Maybe you haven't been to many tracks. I'm sure there are places where there are lots of euro motors. But out here you'd be racing against yourself if they even let you go out.
And that's the point Tom. This guy is asking for advice. Not a political or religious diatribe. The single best thing you could have told him, and what you should have told him, would be to go and buy the motor that is the most common in his area.
Joseph, you so full of B.S. I'm surprised that you still can breath. I have been to more race tracks than you'll ever get to if you live to be 110. Your problem is you're stuck in CA where the Honda is national shrine. I AM partial to the KZ, It's a real Kart engine. I do not want any one out in the audience to think that I would ever steer a prospective karter to a dirt bike engine. There are absolutely no good reasons to encourage anyone to buy a dirt bike engine. Especially the low cost, low maintenance B.S. (KZ's never need new crankshafts, just replace lower end at a reasonable cost). Without getting into a show all tell all about the benefits of the KZ, I can assure you that there is no cost benefit to using a DBE. Besides if you are looking for the enjoyment of competing with a mini F1 never, never, waste a red cent on a DBE.
Joseph, I am giving Cesar good advice "stay away from the wolf in sheep's clothing" Do not ever believe that a 'low cost, low maintenance DBE can be substitute for a real fire breathing kart racing engine. If you're going to take the plunge go with the best. Remember, nobody ever said racing is cheap.
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Tom Barth
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Tom Barth
http://www.greenflagkarting.com/
Power is good...more power is better... too much power is just right! |
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Tim Salvino
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 257
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom Barth wrote: | | KZ's never need new crankshafts, just replace lower end at a reasonable cost |
Tom, what is the average cost to get a KZ crank rebuilt? How many gallons/run time before it needs it? Does that include a new connecting rod?
OEM Honda 1999 CR125 Crankshaft assembly (comes with con rod) - ~$200 (I found it from $180 to $230) |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2927
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom Barth wrote: |
Joseph, you so full of B.S. I'm surprised that you still can breath. I have been to more race tracks than you'll ever get to if you live to be 110. Your problem is you're stuck in CA where the Honda is national shrine. I AM partial to the KZ, It's a real Kart engine. I do not want any one out in the audience to think that I would ever steer a prospective karter to a dirt bike engine. There are absolutely no good reasons to encourage anyone to buy a dirt bike engine. Especially the low cost, low maintenance B.S. (KZ's never need new crankshafts, just replace lower end at a reasonable cost). Without getting into a show all tell all about the benefits of the KZ, I can assure you that there is no cost benefit to using a DBE. Besides if you are looking for the enjoyment of competing with a mini F1 never, never, waste a red cent on a DBE.
Joseph, I am giving Cesar good advice "stay away from the wolf in sheep's clothing" Do not ever believe that a 'low cost, low maintenance DBE can be substitute for a real fire breathing kart racing engine. If you're going to take the plunge go with the best. Remember, nobody ever said racing is cheap.
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Dispatches from the Bubble......
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East Coast Super Kart Series
"This is how we roll!"
www.eastcoastsuperkart.webs.com
CR2 Motorsports
"Home of Cobalt Superkarts"
www.CR2MotorSports.webs.com |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2927
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim Salvino wrote: | | Tom Barth wrote: | | KZ's never need new crankshafts, just replace lower end at a reasonable cost |
Tom, what is the average cost to get a KZ crank rebuilt? How many gallons/run time before it needs it? Does that include a new connecting rod?
OEM Honda 1999 CR125 Crankshaft assembly (comes with con rod) - ~$200 (I found it from $180 to $230) |
Not to mention a properly built crank means all the world in HP, and there's only a handful of people on the planet that can do it correctly......
CR
_________________
East Coast Super Kart Series
"This is how we roll!"
www.eastcoastsuperkart.webs.com
CR2 Motorsports
"Home of Cobalt Superkarts"
www.CR2MotorSports.webs.com |
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joseph hollinger
Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 9475
Location: United States, California, san francisco
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom Barth wrote: |
I have been to more race tracks than you'll ever get to if you live to be 110.
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And how do you know that Tom?
| Tom Barth wrote: |
Joseph, I am giving Cesar good advice "stay away from the wolf in sheep's clothing" Do not ever believe that a 'low cost, low maintenance DBE can be substitute for a real fire breathing kart racing engine. If you're going to take the plunge go with the best. Remember, nobody ever said racing is cheap.
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The mind of Tom Barth: spend whatever it takes even if there is no one to race against. Great advice.
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A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. -- Winston Churchill. |
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Spencer Uzri
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 798
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Cesar Rull wrote: | | ^ One thing i realized I cannot find anywhere that sells ICC parts online for the topend refresh for instance like there is for the hondas. |
As mentioned, Green Flag. Also, Italian Motors USA stocks ICC parts. |
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Cesar Rull
Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 317
Location: United States, Florida, Pembroke Pines
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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^ thank you.
how long should it take to install a motor package in to a chassis, or better yet, how long should a shop charge me in time to do the above. |
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Tim Salvino
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 257
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Taking your time, a few hours.
It really depends on what all you need to install. Does the kart already have fuel lines, control (throttle & clutch) cables, data sensor cables, chain, sprocket, radiator, coolant hoses, etc...?
If you are just taking the base engine (Motor mount, engine, carb(attached to engine), exhaust(for a moto)) off, then you should be able to do it in 15 minutes pretty easy.
Setting up a new powerplant on a new(to you) chassis may take half a day or more to get everything just right. |
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Spencer Uzri
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 798
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim Salvino wrote: | Taking your time, a few hours.
It really depends on what all you need to install. Does the kart already have fuel lines, control (throttle & clutch) cables, data sensor cables, chain, sprocket, radiator, coolant hoses, etc...?
If you are just taking the base engine (Motor mount, engine, carb(attached to engine), exhaust(for a moto)) off, then you should be able to do it in 15 minutes pretty easy.
Setting up a new powerplant on a new(to you) chassis may take half a day or more to get everything just right. |
Basically. If you're relatively mechanically inclined, of course. It was a pretty straightforward installation process the 1st time I did it myself, & I had zero prior experience. Actually, probably the biggest thing in my mind was making sure I had the correct miscellaneous hardware (fasteners, lines, etc.).
It's best to think it through & don't be in a rush to just finish it. Look at other examples at the track & note what works. You can learn a lot from other people's examples/experiences if you take the time to look. There are good/better/best ways to do little things that make a big difference. |
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Chris Hurst
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 569
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Spencer Uzri wrote: | | Cesar Rull wrote: | | ^ One thing i realized I cannot find anywhere that sells ICC parts online for the topend refresh for instance like there is for the hondas. |
As mentioned, Green Flag. Also, Italian Motors USA stocks ICC parts. |
I was going to ask Tom B. how advising a newbie to the sport to get a KZ is good advice, but now it makes sense.  |
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Spencer Uzri
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 798
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Hurst wrote: | | Spencer Uzri wrote: | | Cesar Rull wrote: | | ^ One thing i realized I cannot find anywhere that sells ICC parts online for the topend refresh for instance like there is for the hondas. |
As mentioned, Green Flag. Also, Italian Motors USA stocks ICC parts. |
I was going to ask Tom B. how advising a newbie to the sport to get a KZ is good advice, but now it makes sense. |
I have a TaG-ICC. It has the durability & rebuild intervals in line with the CR125, but it's an ICC-type engine built to bolt straight in to the chassis. Best of both worlds, in my opinion. |
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