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Steve Perdue
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
Posts: 97
Location: United States, Washington, Algona
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 Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, I meant the voume of oil that comes out of the motor during a race on to the track is much more with a 250cc then a briggs,and as you say it can all come out.
And as I was saying its all about the tracks INS and what covers it. Also its land use permit and what it allows,each track is different.For instance we cant run at PGP because we are not on the land use permit,only 4 stroke karts can run on it,untill you change it you operate per the rules,well most of the time.
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Steve Perdue
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
Posts: 97
Location: United States, Washington, Algona
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Spencer Said = (caught Sean Naslund out at Monroe at the SKC race today, racing - & winning - with a prototype CRF250 engine kit. Apparently, this is the long term direction that Honda is going with in its kart market products. HPD is coming on line with this kart motor option very soon.)
Spencer, not sure were you get your info,but sounds a lot more pumped up then it should be,are you getting paid? PROTOTYPE,WHO TOLD YOU THAT!! ITS BEEN OUT FOR 2 YEARS.AND AVAILABLE.
long term direction??? Do work for HPD
HPD has made it available to people that want all the fun of a 4 stroke kart.YOU know like a YURF DOG.No were do they implicate some revolution.
I do not see them saying its the new racing motor for you to get now?
And I raced against Sean Naslund a few days before, and toasted it every heat race and qaulifying.Guess you missed that,or were not told that.ITS not faster bud!It was so loud in my ears untill I got half a strait away from it at PSGKA,took a lap or 2.
GEEZ,
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Last edited by Steve Perdue on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total |
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Steve Perdue
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
Posts: 97
Location: United States, Washington, Algona
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Tim P.
(However, I think there is and will be a place for 4 strokes. I think in the Pacific Northwest there is a track where the city or county has outlawed 2 strokes. I know my choice would be to build a 4 stroke. )
To Clerify,in WA there are no 2 stroke restrictions for karting at all!
This is false information.It is only PGP kart track,200 yards next to PGP in the same race park is a MOTO cross track and 2 strokes are having a blast on there new 2 stroke track.
It is only PGP track not even one other track is like this,and its not the county that told them they cant do it,it was a statement the track made that they will not run 2 stroke's,period.LAND use permit rules.Hope fully will get changed in tears to come.Yes I said tears,we miss the track its sweet!but mistakes happen.
The rest of the State and County is growing in our shifter Spec Honda 2 stroke class,we added 2 drivers last week and 2 the week before.There were 9 or so at the last race and 16 were not there. People are getting bad info out on this deal,and it does have bad affects to our karting markett, it is small as you all know.The focus here has been to get 2 stroke drivers to switch.So much easier.
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Spencer Uzri
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 798
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve Perdue wrote: | Spencer Said = (caught Sean Naslund out at Monroe at the SKC race today, racing - & winning - with a prototype CRF250 engine kit. Apparently, this is the long term direction that Honda is going with in its kart market products. HPD is coming on line with this kart motor option very soon.)
Spencer, not sure were you get your info,but sounds a lot more pumped up then it should be,are you getting paid? PROTOTYPE,WHO TOLD YOU THAT!! ITS BEEN OUT FOR 2 YEARS.AND AVAILABLE.
long term direction??? Do work for HPD
HPD has made it available to people that want all the fun of a 4 stroke kart.YOU know like a YURF DOG.No were do they implicate some revolution.
I do not see them saying its the new racing motor for you to get now?
And I raced against Sean Naslund a few days before, and toasted it every heat race and qaulifying.Guess you missed that,or were not told that.ITS not faster bud!It was so loud in my ears untill I got half a strait away from it at PSGKA,took a lap or 2.
GEEZ,
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The information came from Sean, though I'm paraphrasing. He was apparently running the "prototype" form of the kit that will be (is?) the official HPD package, subject to changes of course.
As for getting paid by Honda, I don't, nor do I happen to own any Honda products at the moment. I run a 2-smoke (TaG-ICC) & have no plans to change that game plan. Feel free to come up to SIMA & smoke me too. I'll be in my 2-smoke, along with the local pack of Great White North drivers up here.
I have no desire to see 2-strokes, & the CR125 in particular, go away. I think the package saved US shifter karting from the brink, & has been the best thing to happen to the class here in the US in that regard. In fact, I suspect it inspired the TaG-ICC class K9ES engine that I run. |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2954
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve Perdue wrote: | | Sorry, I meant the voume of oil that comes out of the motor during a race on to the track is much more with a 250cc then a briggs,and as you say it can all come out. |
That's not what I'm saying, the 250 is a dry sump, if the rod came through the crankcase only the oil in the crankcase would come out, and that's a small portion of the total...
| Steve Perdue wrote: | | And as I was saying its all about the tracks INS and what covers it. Also its land use permit and what it allows,each track is different.For instance we cant run at PGP because we are not on the land use permit,only 4 stroke karts can run on it,untill you change it you operate per the rules,well most of the time. |
Now you're confusing me, PGP is letting a non IKF/WKA/SKUSA legal kart run on their track?
Honestly, I don't think insurance means squat, is more about town restrictions and what the operator of the track feels comfortable with....
I built a F600 a couple of years ago and the owners of OVRP were going to let me shake it down on the kart track....
There's a number of 4 stroke shifter sprinters running around the country...
CR
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Spencer Uzri
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 798
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Reinhardt wrote: |
Now you're confusing me, PGP is letting a non IKF/WKA/SKUSA legal kart run on their track?
Honestly, I don't think insurance means squat, is more about town restrictions and what the operator of the track feels comfortable with....
CR |
Paul has no qualms with 2-strokes. The track was buzzing during NW Stars & I5 Corridor events. Some of the biggest shifter grids I'd seen in this region happened there when it was all getting up & running. It's the contract PGP has with King County regarding their use permit that's the source of this restriction.
My uninformed hunch is that either the proverbial L & R hands weren't talking when the ink was going to paper, or else the ban/phase-out requirement got slipped in during the negotiation phase. I don't really know for certain.
Last edited by Spencer Uzri on Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2954
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve Perdue wrote: |
2: It will only be able to run at one or 2 tracks .It is not IKF legal and most our tracks are in the NW.
3: It is not legal on many tracks were it has been in race situations as they caused some serious oiled up crashes,if so reliable why would 2.5 qt OF OIL HIT A CORNER AND TAKE OUT THE WHOLE FIELD. SEVERAL HOSPITOL BOUND. |
Spencer, I was commenting on these two items, I don't think they are accurate, maybe just his opinion?
CR
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Tim Pappas
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 795
Location: Burkina Faso,
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:12 am Post subject: |
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1. Whoever said that Honda switched from 2 to 4 stroke because they had more parts for increased sales is clearly still suffering from a bad acid trip in the '60's.
2. Honda is making the engine available and nowhere have they said or even implied that they will cram it down our throats without mercy.
3. PGP for whatever reason, because it really doesn't matter, has to run 4 strokes and this is a great option for those who want to race shifters.
4. The 250 is fun as crap to drive. Everyone who sees ours wants to drive it and everyone who drives it wants to get one.
5. #4 doesn't mean that it should be the engine of choice for racing or that it should take over the world. It means what it says. It is fun as crap to drive.
6. So if you have to race 4 strokes and want a shifter get one. If you want to just drive something that is fun as crap ( I just like saying that) to drive get one. Otherwise, keep on getting it with a 2 stroke. They are fun as crap to drive also. |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2954
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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Jim Derrig
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 1030
Location: United States, Washington,
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Spencer Uzri
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 798
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim Pappas wrote: | 1. Whoever said that Honda switched from 2 to 4 stroke because they had more parts for increased sales is clearly still suffering from a bad acid trip in the '60's.
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Right. Money has nothing to do with anything where bu$ine$$ is concerned. Only a crack-head would think otherwise.
Article on the EXP-2 ARC 2-stroke, circa '03 |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2954
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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I think I've said this about a hundred times in here  The "switch" to 4 strokes had everything to do with lap times, plain and simple. On a motocross track, 4 strokes put the power down better which equaled better lap times, period!
To develop a new engine with new technology cost each manufacturer millions and millions of dollars with engineering, R&D advertising, yadda, yadda. It would have been much easier and cheaper to keep developing the 2 strokes which they did until 2007.
CR
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East Coast Super Kart Series
"This is how we roll!"
www.eastcoastsuperkart.webs.com
CR2 Motorsports
"Home of Cobalt Superkarts"
www.CR2MotorSports.webs.com |
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Spencer Uzri
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 798
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Reinhardt wrote: |
I think I've said this about a hundred times in here The "switch" to 4 strokes had everything to do with lap times, plain and simple. On a motocross track, 4 strokes put the power down better which equaled better lap times, period!
To develop a new engine with new technology cost each manufacturer millions and millions of dollars with engineering, R&D advertising, yadda, yadda. It would have been much easier and cheaper to keep developing the 2 strokes which they did until 2007.
CR |
Lest we forget, the AMA rules mean 4's have a power advantage by virtue of their larger displacement. I would've liked to see an EXP-2 style 125cc EFI engine compete with a modern 4-stroke, but Honda has made sure that will never happen.
That said, I will be watching to see how well these new 4's hold up in a kart application. If they have the valve-throwing problem eliminated, then my curiosity will be piqued. |
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Chris Reinhardt
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 2954
Location: United States, New York, Ossining
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Spencer Uzri wrote: | Lest we forget, the AMA rules mean 4's have a power advantage by virtue of their larger displacement. I would've liked to see an EXP-2 style 125cc EFI engine compete with a modern 4-stroke, but Honda has made sure that will never happen.
That said, I will be watching to see how well these new 4's hold up in a kart application. If they have the valve-throwing problem eliminated, then my curiosity will be piqued. |
You mean least we forget? Spencer, I think you need to re-read your 2 stroke and 4 stroke engine theory????
From AMA Pro Motocross Rulebook:
3.1 Engine Displacements
a. 250 Motocross Class:0 – 125cc 2-Stroke / 150 – 250cc 4-stroke
b. 450 Motocross Class:150 – 250cc 2-Stroke / 251 – 450cc 4-stroke
How are any 2 strokes eliminated?
All the reliability bugs have been worked out of the 4 strokes except one.... Lack of maintenance, it will kill a 4 stroke quicker than a 2....
CR
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East Coast Super Kart Series
"This is how we roll!"
www.eastcoastsuperkart.webs.com
CR2 Motorsports
"Home of Cobalt Superkarts"
www.CR2MotorSports.webs.com |
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Ken Schilling
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1351
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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You can have my CR-125 when you can pry it out of my cold dead hands...!!! 
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Ken Schilling
#21x / S4 / ProKart Challenge (PKC)
SKUSA Data Administrator
Good luck is where preparation and opportunity meet!!!
The opinions I express are mine alone and do not reflect those of any organization of which I am a member. |
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