anyone driven a twin engine vintage kart?

Riley Will · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:07 pm Post subject:

I don't know what it's like to drive a vintage C-Open, but after tonight I know what a modern day one feels like. I drove our BRC300cc twin tonight after having proper test drivers shake it down. To quantify what I am going to tell you is some of my racing history and accomplishments:
Karting for 31 years
Competed at the CIK World FSA Champs
Ran Euro FC Championships
Race Superkarts against the worlds best and beat all but 3 of them.
Won a Duffy in the 250cc Unlimited Class
Have driven many very powerful German turbo charged cars.....

What I drove tonight makes more acceleration than anything I have ever experienced! It handled and it flat out ripped! With all of my driving experience, I got out of this kart and could not say what I would change, not because it handled perfect, but because my mind was not able to keep up with it! This kart absolutely humbled me! I will be posting some video soon.

If you are thinking of building a twin, just do it! Maybe with some practice I can actually drive mine to its potential....

Also, I have built a twin liquid cooled 200cc direct drive kart. It should be much tamer than the 300cc kart! Here's hoping;)
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Riley Will
BRC Engineering
rwill@brceng.com
(403) 216-0630 wk.
www.brceng.com

gordon friend · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:11 am Post subject: Twins

I would have loved to have driven a B.Bomb twin in my day, they certainly must have been awesome!

When I lived in England, I did build up a twin, just for fun as they don't race them there........a Hutless chassis which I modified for the 2nd motor, used a couple of Komet engines...135 cc, don't remember the model number now, but ex world championship useage circa early 80's in Europe.

Never got them sorted before I left England, and gave it to a friend so don't know what ever happend to that, sitting in a garage somewhere I guess....... Sad

Both were RH motors and fixed drive. Did try it out one day over there, awesome acceleration, but as always was the problem, getting the LH motor tuned in.....totally different carb settings owing to less air input being shield somewhat by the seat. Ran the big Ibea clide carbs. The set up had a ton of potential, but I guess I will never know now....... Sad

B. Bombs on clutches and methanol must have been lethal But as was the case back in those days, the American chassis....Margay, etc..........just never handled as good as any European ones. At Hong Kong I was easily able to drive around the American set ups through the corners, and the fixed drive clearly had more instant on throttle power than did the clutch engines....... Smile

One memory I have still very vivid, was on the warm up laps prior to the start of the race, I started 3rd........was getting all the methanol fumes in my face from the kart ahead of me........a Margay chassis set up......I think, with Komet K88's with overhead pipes, belonging to Albert Poon, driven by Mickey Allen (UK)....alomost made me a little dizzy!

Colm O'Higgins · Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 36

Albert Poon was a legend in those days! I saw Mickey Allen, Bruno Ferrari (no relation), Paul Fletcher, Jon Jon Ermelli, Dave Hockey (one armed driver from Wales), and a few others race at Monasterboice in Ireland in '64...fabulous memory.

Twins were raced in England during the '60's and 70's and are the best drive ever. B Open (k88's etc 100cc) and C Open (K99's, BM130's etc.) were raced in North America until the mid 80's and are resurfacing again.

Lake Speed wins most of the races...entries are usually 8 > 16 in number. Lake builds replica Invader chassis to order. There are about 40 C karts race ready now here. And Lake said on the Speed TV show that C Open's were "the best ride I ever had, bar none". True!

Will, I would love to watch your new 300cc kart...sounds awesome...but setup and tuning are as difficult as ever. (That makes me say to Gordon that the LH Ibea was a dud...seat shielding is only a minor nuisance).

See my Facebook page for photos too.
Colm
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C Open Ruled ! And Apparently Still Can ! New Castle June 2010 Participant - C Open

Riley Will · Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:03 am Post subject:

Here is our BRC300cc in action this past Thursday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MzwchVxEBc&feature=youtube_gdata

Mechanically works perfect, we were able to concentrate on chassis tuning. It went down to track record pace! The track was very "green" and dirty. Tires were 2 year old Vega Blues too. Fresh tires and a grippy clean surface and it'll go 2 seconds faster!

Absolutely eyeball flattening ride!!
_________________
Riley Will
BRC Engineering
rwill@brceng.com
(403) 216-0630 wk.
www.brceng.com

KURT RODGERS · Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:40 pm Post subject:

Colm O'Higgins · Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 36

Still, I estimate the top 3 in Vintage C Open would beat you, Will. Lake Speed. Troy Brown, Gary Orhndorfer, Greg Stewart all drive and race faster I'd say....plus most of the others are competitive. Only one way to find out...come a VKA event and time trial your kart. Equal tires of course.
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C Open Ruled ! And Apparently Still Can ! New Castle June 2010 Participant - C Open

Riley Will · Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:05 am Post subject:

Colm,
Do you have any Mychron data that we could compare to available? That would be a start...
_________________
Riley Will
BRC Engineering
rwill@brceng.com
(403) 216-0630 wk.
www.brceng.com

Jim McMahon · Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:30 pm Post subject:

C opens are insanely fast, but I think the BRC would have the upper hand, especially if ran on alky like the C-opens. Remember this was the first test of the kart, I don't think it's anywhere near showing its full potiental. I just cant imagine a twin formula K kart with a narrower powerband and less peak power beating something with better power delivery and more peak power even taking into account weight....

I love the concept of big power and hard tires though. Fun fun fun!

Riley you should bring that thing to MIS Smile

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mike best · Joined: 07 Dec 2008 Posts: 60 Location: Australia, not USA,

Some of the vintage karts in Australia can be viewed here http://www.vintagekart.4t.com/twins.html

Or have a look at some modern twins on dirt http://youtu.be/fEKj2yadTIw

My favourite video is a vintage kart from the USA http://youtu.be/v1wL2RDFDaY

Stewart Willis · Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 389

Found an old pic of my twin (From Walt and Johnny Meyers)
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Stewart Willis

Steve O'Hara · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:40 am Post subject:

A little perspective offered.... a few years back a bunch of guys (including Lake Speed) came out from the middle and eastern parts of the country with their C-Open karts to run the Adams Kart track vintage event. There were several dual B-Bomb or BM 130 powered karts that were very nicely prepared and ran great. Jeff Nelson's kid was in an Invader with 130s and he turned the fastest lap time I caught on any of the duals that weekend.. a mid 46 second lap or for the purpose of comparison about the same time as a fast modern kart running a single KT100 with a pipe. I run in the 44s there with my TAG and the 125 shifters do 42s.
Hard to beat a well tuned C-Open in a drag race but Riley's beast would leave them in the dust.
Now, it would be interesting to see the vintage engines on a modern chassis for a direct comparison but I doubt the old motors could keep up... they don't have the range that the modern engines have so they rely on slipper clutches to allow them to pull the taller gears needed to hold the revs down on the straights. The difference in response off the turns is huge... the modern engines with clutches that effectively act like direct drive geared much lower just produces a huge difference in the way they come off the corners.
Steve O'Hara
Steve O'Hara

Jim McMahon · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:04 am Post subject:

Maybe its time for high powered stuff to come back on hard tires? BRC300 on Dunlop SL3's anyone?
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CES Grattan pre-entry is open. TaG, Shifter, KPV, KT100, Animal\LO206, enduro or superkart.
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Riley Will · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:08 pm Post subject:

Wicked pics! When karting was fun and ideas could actually be explored.
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Riley Will
BRC Engineering
rwill@brceng.com
(403) 216-0630 wk.
www.brceng.com

larry goertz · Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 7

I CURRENTLY RUN IN OUTLAW CLASS AND MY KART HAS TWO HIGHLY MODIFIED 125CC LEOPARDS, APPROX HP TOTAL 90HP, ITS A WHITE KNUCKLER. LARRY

Kirk Deason · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:55 am Post subject:

Let's see some pics, Larry. Also, tell us about your build, any problems you ran into, lessons you learned,and what mods you made to get to such huge numbers from a leopard.

I think your caps lock key is stuck. Hit it until the little light turns off on your keyboard.