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Michael Morrone
Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 40
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 Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject: Clubman 100 Class in NJ |
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My buddy are looking to start a cost effective yet fast, fun, and simple 100cc class at the sprint tracks in NJ and surrounding area.
The rules would be simple, like the class. I'm debating weather to make it any 100cc 2-cycle engine or try and promote ICA engines. Having racers bringing out their old reed 100cc engines that are collecting dust and/or also promote new racers on a budget but still want speed.
A brand new late model a/c DAP ICA can be had for $450 from Margay. Find a used Tilly for ~$60, used pipe and header for ~$80, and driver for ~$20. Find a used chassis for $500-$1000 and go racing!
I think would make for a sweet and simple engine package. If you keep the RPM's lower, these engines can last for awhile. Parts availability isn't a problem either because most ICA pistons work across engines. Newbies wouldn't have to worry about the expense and hassle of radiators, starters, or clutches. Sure they might have to take a bit of time and learn bump starting technique + carb tuning, but it took me no time at all, and i would be willing to have a bump start clinic if necessary for the new racers.
In regards to weight, tires, and gearing, a little more testing and talking with veterans and we can nail that down. I say any tire as long as it's used. I know people with piles of used MG Yellows.
Let me know your thoughts! My buddy and I will be at Englishtown this Sunday if anyone want's to chat face to face. Look for the karts with the red colored cylinder head. |
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Walt Gifford
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 4288
Location: United States, South Jerrrsey,
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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If you keep the rpms low you're not going to win, if you start turning them up they start eating parts. Nice idea until you add the competition factor but, I think ICA came and went for a reason.
Personally I think those engines are too strong for an old $500 - $1000 chassis. We just came back from running a 93 swiss hutles with a TKM BT82 piston port and it was scarey watching that thing circulate the track. Can't imagine it with a Parilla TT75. Those old chassis are good for clone motors.
Gif 
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Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001
Yamaha KT100 Service Center
40 years karting experience |
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Michael Morrone
Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Walt Gifford wrote: | If you keep the rpms low you're not going to win, if you start turning them up they start eating parts. Nice idea until you add the competition factor but, I think ICA came and went for a reason.
Personally I think those engines are too strong for an old $500 - $1000 chassis. We just came back from running a 93 swiss hutles with a TKM BT82 piston port and it was scarey watching that thing circulate the track. Can't imagine it with a Parilla TT75. Those old chassis are good for clone motors.
Gif |
Walt,
Thank you for your input.
I understand what your saying about low RPM's. My idea though is to have everyone on the same gearing (or atleast in relation to your kart weight), i would try to come up a rear gear that is small enough so that your not revving the kart high on the straight but still big enough to maintain speed in the corners. Once I do some further testing, I'll hope to come up with a chart for gearing in regards to weight and track that will keep the RPM's at a conservative level. Similar to the Spec PRD class. I understand this may be different from racers who are used to turning ICA's 20k RPM's but it will be great for new guys who want the power of an ICA or TaG with the simplicity and low cost of a Yamaha.
In regards to the chassis statement:
I'm too new to the sport to know what a powerful motor looks or feels like on a weak chassis. Although, I don't think a new racer will know the difference.
I rented an ICA from Keith at Full Tilt which was on an older Top Kart , it handled pretty good to me. I'm sure that chassis had plenty of hours as he said ICA's are what started his business.
Again, this class is for new comers (or anyone) who wants the feeling of a powerful engine without the costs. A new racer can start in this class then move up to TaG or shifter if they wish.
I understand that alot of new 2-cycle racers start with a Yamaha engine. Although, I feel that this engine will offer more bang for your buck than a Yamaha and you don't have to worry about blue printing. I believe that they are also stronger than a yamaha and more reliable when run at a conservative rpm.
Yamaha pipe - $750 - ~16hp
Yamaha pipe w/ BP - $1800 - ~18hp+
100cc Italian reed - $500 - ~25hp+
You do the math! |
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Ambrose Buldo
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 259
Location: United States, New Jersey, Old Tappan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:36 pm Post subject: 100cc karting |
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We are having an informal "100cc and Friends" gathering at OVRP this Sat and again Aug 10-11. You and your friend should come out and join us.
Check out: http://ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=115557&highlight=
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Ambrose Buldo - AKA Racer27
Old Tappan, NJ 07675
Current: Citation FC2000 (For Sale), Madza RX8, VW Eos
Kart for myself: Intrepid Silverstone Pro w/HPV3 --- With a ROK TAG engine waiting in wings
Kart for Daughter: 2001 Birel ARC-100 |
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Michael Morrone
Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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If I come to OVRP on Saturday, will you come to etown on Sunday? 
It's almost a 2.5hr drive to OVRP for me... |
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Ambrose Buldo
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 259
Location: United States, New Jersey, Old Tappan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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ET is closer for me then OVRP, but my trailer is parked at OVRP and I don't have a tow vech. I'll probably come to ET later in the season. Keep me appraised as to what you come up with.
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Ambrose Buldo - AKA Racer27
Old Tappan, NJ 07675
Current: Citation FC2000 (For Sale), Madza RX8, VW Eos
Kart for myself: Intrepid Silverstone Pro w/HPV3 --- With a ROK TAG engine waiting in wings
Kart for Daughter: 2001 Birel ARC-100
Last edited by Ambrose Buldo on Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Morrone
Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I assume you ment your trailer is parked at OVRP...its 1AM LOL!
I will let you know tomorrow night about OVRP on Saturday. I don't have a big rear bumper yet, I plan to get one Sunday at E-Town. Can I run a small bumper at OVRP? |
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Paul Makarucha
Joined: 11 Jun 2002
Posts: 859
Location: United States, New Jersey,
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Ambrose Buldo
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 259
Location: United States, New Jersey, Old Tappan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| Michael Morrone wrote: | | I will let you know tomorrow night about OVRP on Saturday. I don't have a big rear bumper yet, I plan to get one Sunday at E-Town. Can I run a small bumper at OVRP? |
I've seen allot of guys running the smaller rear bumper on pratice days and since this is technicially a pratice day, it should be OK, but if you want to double check you can chack with the track.
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Ambrose Buldo - AKA Racer27
Old Tappan, NJ 07675
Current: Citation FC2000 (For Sale), Madza RX8, VW Eos
Kart for myself: Intrepid Silverstone Pro w/HPV3 --- With a ROK TAG engine waiting in wings
Kart for Daughter: 2001 Birel ARC-100 |
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Walt Gifford
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 4288
Location: United States, South Jerrrsey,
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Michael Morrone wrote: | | My idea though is to have everyone on the same gearing (or atleast in relation to your kart weight) |
That sounds like an interesting experiment. heavier guys get more teeth to help them go faster and light guys get less teeth to keep them below the power curve. I hope there's a window of weight/rpm that works.
| Michael Morrone wrote: | | I'm too new to the sport to know what a powerful motor looks or feels like on a weak chassis. Although, I don't think a new racer will know the difference. |
I said old chassis, component failure is the concern. Those Fulltilt top karts are in good shape but for 1k there are allot of Junkers out there. I hope everyone has the common sense to make the brake system your first priority and wheel attachment your second.
Good luck getting something going on the cheap, we need more of that in karting. I'll be coming up there with my $60 clone motor when the weather cools off.
Gif
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FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician
Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001
Yamaha KT100 Service Center
40 years karting experience |
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Jim McMahon
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 2657
Location: United States, St. Paul,
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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One option is to race them together, but grid the KT's separately.
Depending on the tracks you pick you can keep peak RPMs down, combine with a longer pipe flex and you can have it both ways.
Like I say though depends on the track.
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Karting Festival @ Blackhawk Farms June 1st-2nd. |
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Benn Herr
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 1579
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like time for a Pursuit Race. That way they can run any gear or tire they want. Just time practice and start the race from the pits. Slowest goes first and the rest at gaps that will have everybody finish at the same time (theoretically). If you go faster than your qualifying time, they get a five second penalty for each lap that they do.
Then it will be up to the racer himself to save money with conservative gearing or whatever. It also means you don't need post race tech or scales or any of that stuff. The 100cc karts were meant be driven light and fast, don't dog them down so they run like four cycles!
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Benn Herr
Come see our Superkart Build Off @
http://www.lostenduros.com/?page_id=1534
beherr3@cox.net
http://www.southwestkarters.com/
http://www.lostenduros.com/
Kart Design
Chandler, Az. |
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Michael Morrone
Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Benn Herr wrote: | Sounds like time for a Pursuit Race. That way they can run any gear or tire they want. Just time practice and start the race from the pits. Slowest goes first and the rest at gaps that will have everybody finish at the same time (theoretically). If you go faster than your qualifying time, they get a five second penalty for each lap that they do.
Then it will be up to the racer himself to save money with conservative gearing or whatever. It also means you don't need post race tech or scales or any of that stuff. The 100cc karts were meant be driven light and fast, don't dog them down so they run like four cycles! |
Ben,
Interesting concept! I've never head of this type of race.
How many laps are allowed for practice? |
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Benn Herr
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 1579
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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A Pursuit race is based off of your best qualifying time. Take that number and multiply it times the number of laps in the race. That is how long it should take you to complete the race. Do the same thing with everybody's times. Sort them longest time to shortest time. The difference between the times are how long the next driver has to wait to to start.
Example:
Driver 1 Best lap 43.5 seconds x 20 (laps) = 870 seconds
Driver 2 Best lap 42.0 seconds x 20 (laps) = 840 seconds = 30 sec. gap
Driver 3 Best lap 41.8 seconds x 20 (laps) = 836 seconds = 04 sec. gap
Driver 4 Best lap 39.7 seconds x 20 (laps) = 794 seconds = 42 sec. gap
In this example, driver 4 would start 1 and 3/4 laps behind driver 1 - he's got some catching up to do! The race is the same for everybody, 20 laps as fast as you can and don't make any mistakes. The race is also interesting because instead of the pack spreading out as the race goes on, it gets closer!
If you have a bunch of guys that all run within a few tenths of each other it can get kind of crazy starting karts one or two seconds apart. If that happens you don't need the pursuit format anymore, have a regular race.
I have a spread sheet for this if you would like it.
It's a great way to mix various types of karts and drivers together.
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Benn Herr
Come see our Superkart Build Off @
http://www.lostenduros.com/?page_id=1534
beherr3@cox.net
http://www.southwestkarters.com/
http://www.lostenduros.com/
Kart Design
Chandler, Az. |
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Chuck Parker
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 506
Location: United States, New Jersey,
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Ben, very cool idea. Kinda like bracket racing for drag cars. Have you competed in one of those events ran like that |
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