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marc walsh
Joined: 11 May 2011
Posts: 142
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 Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject: Max RPM Rotax Senior......"HELP"??? |
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Everyones saying I should be able to get 14,500 out of my senior however every spec I see says 12.5 is where it falls off which it does. Regardless of gearing or jetting the most she will do is 12-12.5. Im about 225lbs and running a 14t front and 86 rear. Seems to run good but a dog on slow corners.
Last edited by marc walsh on Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:58 pm, edited 2 times in total |
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josh dorn
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 42
Location: Australia, Alabama,
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:22 am Post subject: rpm |
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rev limit is set at 14,200 to start with, 13,700 is generally what i get everywhere, each motor is different though aswell as kart/driver so not everything will be the same when adjusting.
you should post up what your carby is setup at so people can help, also what weight your racing, weather conditions etc then more people will help. |
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Carlos Calderon
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 890
Location: United States, California, San Jose
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:56 am Post subject: |
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This depends on many factors, however, if you cannot get at least 13,800 with your motor, then something is wrong. Don't worry about anything over 13.8 for now.
Considering your max RPM is only 12.5k, the first place I'd look into is the power valve. Have someone experienced show you how to properly take it off, clean it, put it back together, and attach it. Once that is working well, you can move on to other things, like the carburetor.
If you have access to another properly running Rotax (like a friends'), perhaps you can swap the power valve and carb and see if the motor revs out then. If you do swap for another, be sure that the power valve moves freely after you tighten it down.
And you definitely want to confirm the gear ratio you're running with someone who knows what the proper range for your class at that track.
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Andy Seesemann
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Joined: 16 Jul 2001
Posts: 3303
Location: United States, California, Fullerton
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:12 am Post subject: |
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14t????
Unless you are roadracing, you should not have a 14t driver.
Change to a 12t.
At your weight, most sprint track gearing is 12/78-83.
What track do you race at?
A
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Andy Seesemann
FULL THROTTLE KARTING
Orange County, CA.
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Ambrose Buldo
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 265
Location: United States, New Jersey, Old Tappan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Deleted .. Posted in wrong thread
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Ambrose Buldo - AKA Racer27
Old Tappan, NJ 07675
Current: Citation FC2000 (For Sale), Madza RX8, VW Eos
Kart for myself: Intrepid Silverstone Pro w/HPV3 --- With a ROK TAG engine waiting in wings
Kart for Daughter: 2001 Birel ARC-100 |
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marc walsh
Joined: 11 May 2011
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Seesemann wrote: | 14t????
Unless you are roadracing, you should not have a 14t driver.
Change to a 12t.
At your weight, most sprint track gearing is 12/78-83.
What track do you race at?
A |
Ive been running at Ocala and changed gearing to 14/86. You want to keep the front sproket as large as you can as this will reduce drag caused br a sharp bend. I stil only get 12.5. Totally removed and cleaned the power valve and still the same.....AAAAAAAARG! |
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Andy Seesemann
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Joined: 16 Jul 2001
Posts: 3303
Location: United States, California, Fullerton
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| marc walsh wrote: | | Andy Seesemann wrote: | 14t????
Unless you are roadracing, you should not have a 14t driver.
Change to a 12t.
At your weight, most sprint track gearing is 12/78-83.
What track do you race at?
A |
Ive been running at Ocala and changed gearing to 14/86. You want to keep the front sproket as large as you can as this will reduce drag caused br a sharp bend. I stil only get 12.5. Totally removed and cleaned the power valve and still the same.....AAAAAAAARG! |
I love the EKN Forums, I love the EKN Forums, I love the EKN forums.....
Marc,
This is going to be like the instructions on a shampoo bottle.
"Rinse, lather, repeat".
Unless you are roadracing, you should not have a 14t driver.
Change to a 12t.
At your weight, most sprint track gearing is 12/78-83.
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Andy Seesemann
FULL THROTTLE KARTING
Orange County, CA.
www.fullthrottlekarting.com
Rotax Challenge of the Americas
www.rotaxchallenge.com
WKA District 10 Trustee
www.worldkarting.com
Really Good Guy. |
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Brent Harper
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 892
Location: United States, Texas, Lubbock
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Andy,
You should know that guys like us don't know what we are talking about!! 
See you soon!
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Brent Harper
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 892
Location: United States, Texas, Lubbock
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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So you are basically running a 12/74.. Hmmm????
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Ray Chiappe
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 808
Location: United States, Nevada, Henderson
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| marc walsh wrote: | | Andy Seesemann wrote: | 14t????
Unless you are roadracing, you should not have a 14t driver.
Change to a 12t.
At your weight, most sprint track gearing is 12/78-83.
What track do you race at?
A |
Ive been running at Ocala and changed gearing to 14/86. You want to keep the front sproket as large as you can as this will reduce drag caused br a sharp bend. I stil only get 12.5. Totally removed and cleaned the power valve and still the same.....AAAAAAAARG! |
Andy I feel your pain! At my local sprint track I have to run 11t driver just to keep the axle gear off the ground!! And always top 14,000rpm |
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Nick Weil
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 1801
Location: United States, Florida, Orlando, FL US of A
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| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| marc walsh wrote: | | Ive been running at Ocala and changed gearing to 14/86. You want to keep the front sproket as large as you can as this will reduce drag caused br a sharp bend. I stil only get 12.5. Totally removed and cleaned the power valve and still the same.....AAAAAAAARG! |
Not sure where you came up with that theory, but they did you no favors. I would take any advice from that source in the future and just nod as you walk away trying to maintain a straight face.
I like to think I have a few laps in at Ocala. I also like to think that I have run pretty good there from time to time.
If you are running a 14T driver ANYWHERE in the state of Florida, you are going to get your butt kicked (this includes Road Racing in the state of Florida).
Andy has been here a few times as well!
Since you seem to be a little 'challenged' with your Rotax and it's operation, I would start out with a 12/85 (but don't hit the curbs!) gear. Then as you get better through the corners, maybe you can eventually end up on a 12/82 to 12/80.
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Nick Weil
Authorized Rotax Service Center and Dealer since 2002
2004 Team USA Rotax Worlds Finals DD-2 Driver
Want to save money AND grow the economy? www.fairtax.org |
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Ihor Bilyy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 538
Location: United States, Georgia, Canton
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Ocala have multiple configurations. Can't speak about masters weight, but fast track configuration in Junior class we were 13/70 and I heard some were using 14.
Big change - from full track 12/73(4) to fast track 13/70(1).
And the fact he is not going over 12.5 may be fat jet also. Quick look at RPM graph can show if it sits there or barely reaches. |
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Nick Weil
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 1801
Location: United States, Florida, Orlando, FL US of A
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Ihor Bilyy wrote: | Ocala have multiple configurations. Can't speak about masters weight, but fast track configuration in Junior class we were 13/70 and I heard some were using 14.
Big change - from full track 12/73(4) to fast track 13/70(1).
And the fact he is not going over 12.5 may be fat jet also. Quick look at RPM graph can show if it sits there or barely reaches. |
Ihor...
I know you like to help but this time... Please step away from your computer. This guy runs Masters and it's NOTHING like Junior for gearing. He's almost 10 teeth of on his current gear setup. This advice from Brent Harper and Andy Seeseman who have more time in Masters at Ocala than most people in Florida is spot on. How about we get him geared right and then we give him a class on jetting? Please let us help him and stop encouraging the guy down the rabbit hole.
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Nick Weil
Authorized Rotax Service Center and Dealer since 2002
2004 Team USA Rotax Worlds Finals DD-2 Driver
Want to save money AND grow the economy? www.fairtax.org |
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Matt Clark
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 183
Location: United States, Florida, Tampa
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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Even though I'm new I will say I was at Ocala running (the fast track) 2 weeks ago (senior rotax) with a 12/75 setup hitting upper 13k. Listen to Nick, the guy knows what he's talking about for sure!
Last edited by Matt Clark on Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total |
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Ihor Bilyy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 538
Location: United States, Georgia, Canton
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Nick Weil wrote: | | Ihor Bilyy wrote: | Ocala have multiple configurations. Can't speak about masters weight, but fast track configuration in Junior class we were 13/70 and I heard some were using 14.
Big change - from full track 12/73(4) to fast track 13/70(1).
And the fact he is not going over 12.5 may be fat jet also. Quick look at RPM graph can show if it sits there or barely reaches. |
Ihor...
I know you like to help but this time... Please step away from your computer. This guy runs Masters and it's NOTHING like Junior for gearing. He's almost 10 teeth of on his current gear setup. |
Nick, first of all. I'm just pointing out that Ocala configuration can be way different and I BET Brent or Andy never did a single lap on fast track in Rotax Masters. I can put some money on it.
I'm almost sure 12/74 for fast track is OK for overweight Masters driver. YES, 13/70 (12/64) in Junior and 12/74 in Masters is "NOTHING like". Is 10 teeth enough difference between those classes? Usually it is close to 5-6.
We can ask some OGP masters, May 12 this year was Fast Track, no chicane, no hairpin and I do not remember you being there, nor Brent or Andy.
Secondly, there is a simple way to detect if you have way wrong gear: if you barely reaching 12500 and given more asphalt RPM likely to go up, go up with ratio. If you sit on high RPM flat (12500 or 13/14K whatever it is for any engine) go down with ratio. Of course lap time is always wins if you have enough laps proving it.
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=2260574
2012/05/12 OGP Fast Track
Junior 27.1, Senior 27.2, Master 28.0 (27.8 in final race).
Lap times are off by 8-9 seconds off of normal FWT times.
OGP is often using fast track for their day operation for concession karts (with chicane) so it is very likely privateer visited it during such configuration. |
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