Moderation of the Deep Seat thread

Jeff Franz · Joined: 16 Jul 2001 Posts: 524

There will undoubtedly be some ruffled feathers about this.

I would like to emphasize that this action came about after repeated warnings from Glenn that such behavior would not be tolerated. As he pointed out, it was the type of mutation we will not tolerate. Glenn correctly noted, "each and every one of us needs to exercise good judgment and patience when we hit that reply button."

Simply, these forums are here to help the community share information about the sport we all enjoy. Yes, there are rivalries and differences of opinion, but when forum members lose sight of that and begin taking shots at each other, then the moderators will step in.

It is important to note that some posts were deleted because they contributed to the off-topic nature of the thread, not because they were rude or inappropriate. For continuity's sake, they needed to be removed.

Input and reasonable discussion is welcome.

Thanks everyone,

Jeff Franz

[ August 02, 2001: Message edited by: Jeff Franz ]

Darren Swisher

Jeff, I am a true proponent of the first amendment of free speech. I will not tolerate censorship for the most part. As for the post on the Deepseat thread, I felt that if the posters would have chosen their words more wisely, that the integrity of the thread would have remained. I still am up in the air about the total deletion, but I do understand that these forums are a somewhat private nature in that the public does not own them. So total control ends with the owners. Which I do respect totally.

How ever if you look at some of the post, some people can and do promote themselves and their businesses,(isn’t this advertising) some can say how good a product is but when it comes to a negative post about a person interaction with a product or service it is deleted or frowned upon as dreadful.

Can you have it just one way?

Be careful

Darren

Jeff Franz · Joined: 16 Jul 2001 Posts: 524

Darren,

Good thoughts. Your remarks about the First Amendment ring true, yet as you also point out, these boards serve a particular purpose that the owners (Ekartingnews) decide upon. As much as I'd like to allow free speech to run rampant in all of its forms, inevitably the uglier versions of such speech (racism, sexual discrimination, foul language, etc.) will begin creeping in among the unmoderated chaos. Where to draw the line is, of course, the challenge for us.

I understand your concerns when you wrote, "some can say how good a product is but when it comes to a negative post about a person interaction with a product or service it is deleted or frowned upon as dreadful." But, is that a pattern that has already developed here?

If a negative post about an individual, business, or product is written in what we deem to be a constructive, mature manner, then I can’t see us frowning or deleting it, and to my knowledge, we haven’t done that yet. Transgress those guidelines, and we shall address it accordingly.

Positive posts, well yes, there’s no hiding the fact that a post which features real enthusiasm for a personal experience will be given a bit more slack. We like to hear success stories. But, blatant promotion or repeated attempts by individuals to shamelessly sell their products, those shall be dealt with in what Ekartingnews feels is an appropriate manner.

Ultimately, the decision will sit with us on what constitutes advertising, flaming, rudeness, or objectionable behavior. We’ll do our best to be fair, keeping the best interests of the boards at heart.

Jeff

Darren Swisher

Jeff, Your commitment to the forums and there use as a tool to further promote and understand Karting as well as giving news comers precious data that will ultimately make Karting a better community. I thank you, and if I can speak for the other ekarters, the community thanks you.

Darren

Tim Blaney · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 1127

Before we all drape ourselves with the Bill of Rights, let's not forget, there are NO 1st Amendment guarantees on this forum.

We all agree to a certain set of rules as to what we can and cannot post on Jeff's forum. If we do not agree with those rules, no one is forcing us to sign-on as participants.

So far, Jeff and Glenn have done a nice job of keeping the forum open and free of the non-sense that clutters most other Internet forums. It is up to all of us to police ourselves to keep things in line.

The thread in question was on the slippery-slope of devolving into what we saw on TKWS regarding the same topic. With that in mind, Jeff was right to take the public actions he did and whatever private actions as well.

Like all new entities, we will be testing the waters to see how far we can push before crossing the line. For this issue, now we know.

Chad Stapleton · Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Posts: 4403

Personally, i support freedom of speech, however, i have seen more than one Forum wither and die a slow death as the result of uncensored threads becoming offensive and abusive to the majority of contributers, to the point where "normal" people just are not prepared to participate.
Hence , thoughtful censorship can actually help to protect our ability to speak freely.

Tony Gaylord

quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Franz:
Darren,

Ultimately, the decision will sit with us on what constitutes advertising, flaming, rudeness, or objectionable behavior. We’ll do our best to be fair, keeping the best interests of the boards at heart.

Jeff

Well I do understand where your coming from Jeff, but I don't entirely agree. As most who read know, I made the post regarding this whole dilema. It was 'honest', non-rude or a flame, it was what happened in Canby. And as some of you may have seen after Scott's comments, Mr. Howden made it very clear as to what happend. Yes, a Deep was ran in Scott's car. And it DID rock -
Although Scott didn't make the run, I didn't say that he did.

The way I look at it, Scott made some very unprofessional comments, and as the thread went on, the truth came out of it and it augmented and supported my original message entirely. Yes it turned a little on the "UG" side

but it was straighting itself out and I see at is what to DO and NOT to do. Personaly if people that are new come along and read that thread, they will learn from it. If its smeared out, new people or 'regulars' that didn't grab on to the topic will never know.

At any rate, all is good

Personaly, I feel that the thread should have stayed, IMHO. And after Glenn had stepped in, that was basicly were it ended. So no harm done really.

My (rare) .02 -
* TG *

Charlie Tackett

IMHO, Glen handled that perfectly fine, couldn't or wouldn't have done it any better or different myself. From my discussions with Glenn prior to accepting the position, I felt that they would also be attempting to carry on in much the same fashion as TKWS had. In fact that was one thing I had asked about specifically...would the manner in which I moderated the TKWS shifter forum as far as acceptable and tolerable behvior/comments be consistent with the manner in which they would expect me to moderate on these forums. So at least for me and those who participated in the shifter forum of TKWS, there are not going to be any big surprises or changes, the forum standards will be the same and stepping over the line will have the same results as previously experienced by some.

BTW, Tim , as you may recall that thread reagarding this same issue/product line was brought to a halt and locked down on TKWS, also. Product loyalty is one thing, however when someone has to begin promoting there product in deceitful manners or by insulting the competition, then to me, that reflects poorly upon the product they are trying so despertly to promote.

[ August 02, 2001: Message edited by: Charlie Tackett ]

Pete Muller

Gentlemen,

Welcome to the jungle.

My only words of advice are...

Hold true to YOUR OWN INTENT for this forum, because ultimately... you will find that you can not please all the people regardless of your approach.

PM

Jeff Franz · Joined: 16 Jul 2001 Posts: 524

Tony,

The issue here wasn't who made the original statement in question, whether it was an accurate portrayal of events or not, or whether the product performed well or not. Frankly, those issues aren't the concern.

There was an additional post earlier this morning that was a clear indication that some folks wouldn't let the thread go back to its original purpose. It was said post that finalized the decision for me.

Again, when a thread mutates into something that is in no way constructive, then such moderation will be the result. The message boards I have moderated for in the past suffered similar growing pains, and I think Tim Blaney hit the nail on the head. It's not unlike the first day of school; we're all just testing the boundaries. No harm in that, as long as we are all in agreement about what these boards are truly for.

And Pete, you couldn't be more correct. We can't please all our members, but fortunately, we have a year of running a website that already doesn't please everyone!!

Thanks to everyone for their inputs, I greatly appreciate it.

Jeff

Charlie Tackett

Pete, I be Glenn knows now why I held out for the big bucks. That 6pk wasn't enough...finally got him up to a case....

John Bosanek

Run this forum as you see fit. You are offering a great service to the racing community, but it IS your site to run. Bickering and so-forth can be taken care of via private e-mail or one of those private message things. Disagreeing with one person is one thing, but I think we can all tell when the lines have been crossed and that doesn't just apply to the "Deepseat Thread" I'm sure I'm not the only guy who feels this way.

[ August 04, 2001: Message edited by: John Bosanek ]

Larry Ferguson

The way I see it, is if someone is so narrow minded as to criticize these guys for the way that THEY are running THEIR website, then that person(s) should quite simply log off and go back to TKWS.

It's a free country...if you don't like the food, choose another restaraunt!

Tony Gaylord

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Ferguson:
The way I see it, is if someone is so narrow minded as to criticize these guys for the way that THEY are running THEIR website, then that person(s) should quite simply log off and go back to TKWS. It's a free country...if you don't like the food, choose another restaraunt!

Well, I wouldn't call it norrow minded, I call it an opinion. My 'opinion' as I expressed it has no effect on anything. Yes it is 'THIER' website, however beings that we all come here, it's ours as well. Please don't take that the wrong way, I guess I get a little hell-bent when I hear someone refere to someone else (me for that matter) as being norrow minded when someone asks hows people feel about a certain subject.

Its NOT criticism Larry, it was mearly an expression of an opinion.

Damn it! I fell of my soap box and I can't get up!!

-On the flip
*TG*

Larry Ferguson

I am trying to come back with a responsible reply. Unfortunatly, at the moment, my mind is a bit clouded and I am sure that my thoughts will misinterpeted as ridiculous. So, for the evening and the sake of sounding any dumber than I am, I will wait until the fog has lifted before I post my response. Hopefully I will be able to make some sense of my earlier post! Whew.
Larry