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Mike Burris
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 574
Location: United States, California, Huntington Beach
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 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't run a manufacturing business so I can't comment on whether or not Briggs tolerances are reasonable for this engine but if they've been the same since 2003 and IKF chooses to use tighter tolerances and different measuring techniques I can only speculate there's somebody on the rules committee that wants it that way for a reason. |
Just curious, but how can Briggs (allegedly) hold the LO206 pop up to within .005" and needs considerably more pop up tolerance on an the World Formula that is basically a sister to the LO206 and costs twice as much? The pop up issue is nothing new and has been hashed over in the kart and quarter midget forums from day one.  |
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 2013
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Burris wrote: | | Quote: | | I don't run a manufacturing business so I can't comment on whether or not Briggs tolerances are reasonable for this engine but if they've been the same since 2003 and IKF chooses to use tighter tolerances and different measuring techniques I can only speculate there's somebody on the rules committee that wants it that way for a reason. |
Just curious, but how can Briggs (allegedly) hold the LO206 pop up to within .005" and needs considerably more pop up tolerance on an the World Formula that is basically a sister to the LO206 and costs twice as much? The pop up issue is nothing new and has been hashed over in the kart and quarter midget forums from day one. |
I'm sure you know the process for doing this Mike, it's parts sorting and hand assembly. If you have some reason to doubt Briggs specifications, or the LO206 program I think that's a different thread.
Although the World Formula costs twice what the Animal does it comes completely assembled and does not require blueprinting to power a kart around the track. Honestly I don't know how Briggs makes money with the prices on their racing engines, the Model 20 industrial 8hp engines costs $455, $50 less than the Animal and a whole lot less goes into it. Making a race engine out of something originally designed for powering pressure washers isn't easy, nor is working with sanctioning bodies to come up with reasonable class structures and enforceable rules.
If the rules committees haven't been able to come up with a way to work with the engine as provided I don't think you can fault the manufacturer for that. Unless the manufacturer writes the rules like Rotax, or F200 the racers should look to their rules committees to resolve any issues, or replace the class with something that works better. Maybe the basic problem lies over in Switzerland where the whole World Formula concept originated, I don't think anybody in the US uses CIK rules for this engine and my overseas customers don't seem to either.
We all know the business model for kart engines has included value added services and parts for a long time. I know you have a little insight on the kart engine business and what it takes to make a profit selling everything from oil to tires to engines and parts. If you have a better way of doing it then go ahead but if I'm not mistaken it's up to the builder to make sure pop-up is correct in F200 as well. I've only ever seen engine builders complaining about stuff like this, not racers and I know why. It costs them (builders) money.
I had the good fortune of visiting Syd White (RIP) at his shop a few years back. He showed me some of the tricks he used for getting those last few tenths from the World Formulas he built. He also had quite a few blocks laying around there. I don't think he ever built engines on a deadline, it's just too hard to get everything perfect if you're in a hurry. I suppose if he were still with us he could shed some light on this issue but he's gone now 
Apparently the racers who run World Formula like the class and it seems to be growing again in some places. If the demand continues I guess Briggs might consider using what they've learned from building the LO206 in the World Formula program. But I think the racers would have to want a sealed bottom end like the LO206 to keep engine building costs down. Honestly though I'd personally rather see a racing version of the Model 20 
Cheers,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC. |
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Corey Poynor
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 29
Location: United States, Washington, Richland
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Delete Section 717.24.1: Minimum from top of piston to the top of wrist pin
on the side to which arrow points, measured with a depth gauge placed on the piston crown
parallel to the wrist pin is .680".
Add as Section 717.24.1: Piston dome may be machined to achieve correct piston pop-up. A
resemblance of the dome on the piston must still be present. Pop-up must be no less than .010
and no more than .025 as measured with a bar centered over and parallel to the wrist pin.
Change Section 717.24.2 to read: Factory oversize World Formula pistons are allowed.
Delete Section 717.24.3.
Section 717.12: 3rd Sentence – change 3rd sentence to: Piston pop up minimum .010” and maximum 0.025”…
THANK YOU IKF! You have just saved a lot of racers and builders a lot time and money.
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Poynor/Dean Racing Engines and karting supplies
www.pdrekarting.com |
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