Clone cranks, etc ...

[mike clements]

Disassembled 5 new yellow clones this morning. All five of them are different. The cranks were all over the board. Some light, some heavy. Some are as cast and some have the counter weights ground. The stroke varies too. Rod journals are +/- 1/2 thou. No good way to tell if the factory cut the crank or the engine builder cut it. Although some of the stock flywheels have some drilled holes parallel to the crank to "balance" them, many have the balance holes drilled perpendicular to the crank. Either can be played with and still go right through tech.
Blocks, rods, pistons, carbs...all the same way.
I enjoy building modified clones for our customers. But the "stock" classes are very difficult to tech in a fair and impartial manner. There are just too many inconsistencies between engines right out of the box.
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Began kart racing 1959. Made many friends along the way.

[paul hir]

You will probably get a answer on 4cycle.com

[John Matthews]

We all know the kind of answers you get on Radio Edit

There are clone racers, or prospective clone racers here on ekarting news too and I think Mike is just giving some data folks could use. Especially tech and club officials trying to get clone programs going.

Some guys want to make it a religion what engine you race but when you go into these things trying to build good ones for folks this is exactly the kind of thing you're looking for. Put together a crank that's stroke is a little long with a block that has a kinda short deck and you've got one heck of a legal clone motor.

It won't bother the guy who's stepping down from shifters to spend $1000 on a motor like that (at least until it gets claimed), but for the guy who was told everyone is "just takin' em out of the box and runnin' em" he'll be mighty disappointed when he gets beat by power, not driving.

Clements is one of the guys who helped make "stock" flatheads cost $1800 so when he warns racers about stuff like this it would be good for folks to listen

Cheers,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC.

[mike clements]

John, Again, you are correct on every point. The clones with a "claim" on them should be the ones that are "supposed" to be run right out of the box. The BSP class is for stock legal clones that have been blueprinted to a set of standard rules.
Then, the modified clones and Hondas and Animals, etc all race together as an open class with a displacement rule. Sounds fair enough.
Some people wonder why we spend so much $$ on a modified 4 stroke when that same amount of money will buy more hp in a 2 stroke package. Well, the answer is very simple: We enjoy the technical challenge of working with an industrial based engine and extracting as much performance as possible from it. It's not about everything being equal. It's about learning, working, machining, building, outside the box thinking, etc.
It's fun for some of us and not for everyone. That's why it is a choice.
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Began kart racing 1959. Made many friends along the way.

[Ryan Knowlton]

A nearby track runs a claim rule and a club buyout, meaning if an engine is claimed, it's teched and then if it's still obviously faster(as said above the long stroke crank ended up in the shorter casting on this one) the club claims it and makes it go away.
If the same guy shows up the next week with another one, it becomes obvious that it's a builder motor or he's cherry picking parts himself and gets a choice of stepping up a class or told don't come back. Sounds harsh but the stock classses aren't for someone to spend $1000 cherry picking the best parts from a whole bunch of engines, which ruins it for alot of people that don't have the cash to cherry pick.
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03 Italkart Supersonic V
420cc Predator Clone

[John Matthews]

Kudos to your track for having the stones to make this kind of rule and enforce it. Beginner classes should be for beginners, not experts who just want to add trophies to their collection.

Kinda OT but when I was racing SCCA Michael Lewis would come and test occasionally during club races. Even though his pro car was technically "legal" for our Super Production class he was obviously way above everyone else out there including some very talented and well funded amateurs. He would go out and mix it up with everyone but always pull into the pits on the last lap so as not to mess with our regional points battle. What a class act

I've been saying for years that these classes should make the trophy out of lead, paint it gold, and have the winner bolt it on their kart
The goal in racing should always be to move up and compete against better drivers, that's what makes you fast, not cheater motors....
Sure, not everyone can afford to move up classes but when you get good enough to beat everyone else in your class you should spend more time helping them to get better so you have some competition. Otherwise what's the point

Cheers,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC.

[Eric Lane]

John well said very well said .

[mike clements]

I like that John. Maybe Duffy winners should weigh in before the race and then strap last years Duffy to their kart ?
If a Duffy weighs 10 lbs, Ronnie Emmick would have to add 400 pounds to his kart !
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Began kart racing 1959. Made many friends along the way.

[Tim Lawrence]

40 Duffies! Pretty Impressive. Do you know how many he has in 4 cycle sprint?

[mike clements]

I believe Ronnie has three second place finishes in 4 cycle sprint IKF. I don't believe he has any in 4 cycle or speedway, yet. I think Haddock has 28 Duffys in 2 cycle, 4 cycle, sprint, speedway and enduro. Probably the best all around American kart racer ever. JMO

I received 10 new yellow clones yesterday and they have some problems. First, the crank PTO's are 20mm or .787" diameter. Who builds clutches for this crank ? None that I am aware of. The crank is also .400" too short at the PTO. But, it has .150" more stroke and the bore is +.100" over the older clones. This is not the Predator engine either. These are yellow just like the Ducar and Dupor.
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Began kart racing 1959. Made many friends along the way.

[Tim Lawrence]

I knew Haddock had a handful of Duffys in each division. I'm trying to find out who had the most in 4-cycle Sprint. I guess I can call I.K.F., I would think they should know

[mike clements]

I have 4 of them in 4 cycle sprint. I know a few other guys in the same league. I believe Rod Stewart has maybe 6 of them. The Turk Brothers, combined have several. Not sure of their individual count though.
I have 8 second place finishes if that counts.

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Began kart racing 1959. Made many friends along the way.

[Tim Lawrence]

4 Duffys, pretty impressive, they are hard to come by. I have 3all in 4 cycle sprint. I still can't decide which one is more meaningful, your 1st duffy or the 2nd one that makes an expert! I heard that Rod stewart had something like 13 or 14 in 4 cycle sprint, not sure how accurate that is. Maybe someone else will chime in on who has the most.

[Tim Lawrence]

I checked with I.K.f. and they didn't know who has the most in 4 cycle sprint. Only way they can get a number is go back through there database and come up with a number, but would be to time consuming going back 50 years or so.

[TIMOTHY STRAWKAS]

What ever happened to rod stewart?