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Lee Arnold
Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 31
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 Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:07 pm Post subject: FKCS Has No Box Stock Claimer Rule In 2012 |
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How did this happen?
I think you just made more work for tech man and teams as top three
should be coming in a box!
FKCS please put this out for a vote.
THX |
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:11 am Post subject: |
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With a claimer rule you just make it difficult for folks who do their homework and beat others with good preparation/driving.
JMHO,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC.
Last edited by John Matthews on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total |
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Bernie Lacotta
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| John Matthews wrote: | I don't race there so my opinion really doesn't matter but everyone knows Box Stock is anything but now 
With a claimer rule you just make it difficult for folks who do their homework and beat others with good preparation/driving. IMHO the only way this package will ever get out of the rules mess it's in is for all the clubs around the country to settle on a national rules program and enforce it. Otherwise you're doomed to the scenario where every track has their own rules and you can only win there if you bought your engine from the track owners brother-in-law....
If you don't want winners to get torn down you either need to ignore cheating or run a sealed package.
JMHO, |
Absolutely correct John. At AKA Speedway ( AZ.) most of the clone racers moved up ( yes ,I believe it's a step up ) to the LO 206 class which is now our largest and fastest growing class. The clones have become a joke. I just saw someone selling longer rods. "Rods aren't a tech item ", but they're not free ! Everyone at AKA is happy with the 206 , close competition , great rules , and a happy tech guy ( me ).
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I breathe ,therefore,I race |
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:36 am Post subject: |
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Hey Bernie,
I hear good things about 4 cycle sprints out there too, wish I could come run with you guys.....
Cheers,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC. |
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mike clements
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 248
Location: United States, Arizona, San Tan Valley
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Personally, I don't like "spec" classes. I enjoy the more Open classes where an engine builder can out think and out prepare the next guy. When the tracks invite the open 4 strokes back, I'll be there and I'll bring several karts and drivers with me.
While I enjoy all forms of karting, it's the open/unlimited classes that make my blood flow.
Clones won't be a Joke when I bring one out. Guaranteed ! 
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Began kart racing 1959. Made many friends along the way. |
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charles hunter
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 732
Location: United States, California, anaheim
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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I will be running an open Animal at the so cal sprinters club races in Riverside at Adams. I'll be the only one cause the others are running World Formulas. Bernie ie; Flash has come from Arizona so the drive must not be to bad. It would be great to get an open class started so think about it. 
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swampwater smyth concurs "If you aint first, yer last."
------------------>DRSWAMP RACING INC<----------------- |
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Bernie Lacotta
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| mike clements wrote: | Personally, I don't like "spec" classes. I enjoy the more Open classes where an engine builder can out think and out prepare the next guy. When the tracks invite the open 4 strokes back, I'll be there and I'll bring several karts and drivers with me.
While I enjoy all forms of karting, it's the open/unlimited classes that make my blood flow.
Clones won't be a Joke when I bring one out. Guaranteed ! |
Mike my reference to clones being "jokes " has to do with the original concept of " box stock " engines. With pathetic rules , wide variety of accepted parts , and the greatest waste of time , a claimer rule ( always good for making friends and keeping the world happy ) , the class has turned into the worst financial choice a person could make.
Now , open class ,that's a different story. It doesn't matter what you start off with , it's all about hp per cc. Metallurgy may play a part in that ...clone based engines may have a handicap in that department. As a builder you know you get what you pay for when it comes to HP ! It's been a long time since I've seen anyone interested in open engines , besides engine builders and guys running no rules backyard tracks.Being a life time drag racer I love looking for HP , there just are not that many people in karting today who share the same opinion. Opens cost money , have short lives and really don't show much better on the track than the current "stock " Briggs OHV engines , be they World Formulas or Animals.
I certainly hope you get out to the Holiday Classic this year. Please look me up. I'll be disappointed if you don't. Any locals will know me, tall , old , bad jokes and usually getting yelled at ! Really hope to meet you.
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I breathe ,therefore,I race |
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Johnny Russo
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 181
Location: United States, Guam,
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I enjoy the more Open classes where an engine builder can out think and out prepare the next guy. When the tracks invite the open 4 strokes back, I'll be there and I'll bring several karts and drivers with me.
While I enjoy all forms of karting, it's the open/unlimited classes that make my blood flow. |
Great, does that mean you are bringing several karts for the Open class at the Holiday Classic next week?  |
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Logan Knapp
Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Posts: 21
Location: United States, Wisconsin, Kohler
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Granted im very new to the clone engine world and kart engine building, but from what I am seeing is having a basic rules set for engine build, stroke=x,lift=x at x degree, bore=x. spring psi=x and so on and use these rules nationally so that we have very similar engines for $500? (could be totally wrong on that). Im soo hesitant on the claims rules but then again I've never had to deal with that ever before. |
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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The problem isn't really in having a decent rules package. Anyone, can come up with rules that would be easy to understand and enforce. You do need to enforce them though and that will mean winners coming home in a box just like every other class.
Cheers,
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John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC.
Last edited by John Matthews on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total |
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Tracy Simmons
Joined: 01 Aug 2001
Posts: 359
Location: United States, Arizona,
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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John,
Im just curious, is Briggs paying you to go to every clone thread and talk about how bad they are and then tell us all how great the LO206 is?
Im curious what track you currently race? What chassis are you using and what classes are you running?
For total visibility, I raced a clone at AKA in Phoenix. Then went to an animal and now sold all the dirt stuff and will be running a Rotax at PKRA.
I also race a few races last year at PKRA with a World Formula. |
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Bernie Lacotta
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Tracy Simmons wrote: | John,
Im just curious, is Briggs paying you to go to every clone thread and talk about how bad they are and then tell us all how great the LO206 is?
Im curious what track you currently race? What chassis are you using and what classes are you running?
For total visibility, I raced a clone at AKA in Phoenix. Then went to an animal and now sold all the dirt stuff and will be running a Rotax at PKRA.
I also race a few races last year at PKRA with a World Formula. |
Tracy , You certainly know who I am. Everything John posts in regards to clone / LO206 has been extolled by me on at least as many web sites and face to face. As a tech guy the clone/LO206 discussion leans heavily in favor of Briggs. Financially I consider it a better investment too but all in all it's up to the individual as to what and where they wish to race.
John probably gets the same checks I get from Briggs. LOL I really don't see why both classes can't live side by side. All the arguments I see on forums reminds me of my cat protecting his territory ( loudly ) when he sees a strange cat wandering by our window .
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Tracy Simmons
Joined: 01 Aug 2001
Posts: 359
Location: United States, Arizona,
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Bernie Lacotta wrote: | | Tracy , You certainly know who I am. Everything John posts in regards to clone / LO206 has been extolled by me on at least as many web sites and face to face. As a tech guy the clone/LO206 discussion leans heavily in favor of Briggs. Financially I consider it a better investment too but all in all it's up to the individual as to what and where they wish to race. |
Bernie,
You and I will never agree on this, so since neither of us have any skin in the game any longer, lets just move on.
I do have to say this. I won a couple of races this fall in the clone class and finished in the top 3 every race. You never had to tech my engine. Rolled off the scales and straight to my trailer. I also never had or saw a clone engine claimed. How could it be any easier for a tech guy than that? |
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Bernie Lacotta
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Tracy Simmons"] | Bernie Lacotta wrote: | | Tracy , You certainly know who I am. Everything John posts in regards to clone / LO206 has been extolled by me on at least as many web sites and face to face. As a tech guy the clone/LO206 discussion leans heavily in favor of Briggs. Financially I consider it a better investment too but all in all it's up to the individual as to what and where they wish to race. |
Bernie,
You and I will never agree on this, so since neither of us have any skin in the game any longer, lets just move on.
I do have to say this. I won a couple of races this fall in the clone class and finished in the top 3 every race. You never had to tech my engine. Rolled off the scales and straight to my trailer. I also never had or saw a clone engine claimed. How could it be any easier for a tech guy than that?[/quo
te]
You missed the fun times ! And I know you don't have a rule book ! LOL
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John Matthews
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Tracy Simmons wrote: | John,
Im just curious, is Briggs paying you to go to every clone thread and talk about how bad they are and then tell us all how great the LO206 is?
Im curious what track you currently race? What chassis are you using and what classes are you running?
For total visibility, I raced a clone at AKA in Phoenix. Then went to an animal and now sold all the dirt stuff and will be running a Rotax at PKRA.
I also race a few races last year at PKRA with a World Formula. |
Hi Tracy,
Actually Briggs doesn't pay me, I pay them, sometimes thousands of dollars a month
I first started kart racing in California with my dad in 1977, we ran Invaders with Komet K55 reed valve engines. Then I got out of racing for about 15 years until I fell in with a nice couple that raced SCCA. I got my license and ran in San Francisco Region for a few years before moving to Arizona.
From 2001 until 2009 I lived in Mesa AZ and supported drivers at PKRA as well as AKA and Tuscon. I ran a shop called TMS Racing, Inc. there and won a few TaG championships with my drivers running Easykarts.
Fortunately I do get to go racing again this year with my 14-year old daughter. We'll be running at East Lansing (sprint) and Houghton Lake (dirt) in Michigan. Our chassis are the Time Machine and the Cheyenne, both designed by Mike Clements which I got the rights to when I purchased Heartbeat Racing from he and Kim. We'll be running in the clone group (with an LO206) at East Lansing and possibly in a new LO206 class at Houghton Lake.
When you see my opinions stated on the forum they're based on my experiences as an engine builder and a dealer for companies on both sides of the clone/LO206 debate. I made my choices and I'm sticking to them. I'm going to continue to support the only American kart engine company currently producing product for national classes.
Fortunately for me I got to move to Michigan and convert my karting business into a full line outdoor power equipment shop. Now I fix peoples lawnmowers, chainsaws and boats so I don't depend on karting to pay the bills anymore and I have a chance to just enjoy it with my kid this summer hopefully....
I'm glad you've found the Rotax program, it's been rock solid through some pretty tough times in karting. I really love the fact that both Briggs and Rotax/BRP provide a great product for karting and have provided both rules and engines for their classes.
Good luck with your race program and let me know if you have any other questions for me.
Cheers,
_________________
John Matthews
Heartbeat Power, LLC.
Last edited by John Matthews on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total |
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