Unlimiteds and juniors mixed practice?

Russ Schaeffer · Joined: 02 Aug 2001 Posts: 40 Location: California

Question: Should Superkarts and slower 100cc karts be on the track at the same time? Frankly, it's a little scary for me in my Spec Sprint on the exit of high speed corners. I'm sure one day I'm going to get plowed. What do you guys think?

Thanx
Russ Schaeffer

scott berkheiser

Most places I race with have several groups for practice which are based on speed. Even this can be interesting at times.

I agree a big speed differential is scary but one of the problems I 've had several times this year is with classes combined that have similar speeds. You end up having someone from another class start racing with you and it screws up your race. What makes it even worse is when the other guy is in a faster class than you

Scott

[ August 16, 2001: Message edited by: Scott Berkheiser ]

Gary Kozuma1 · Joined: 26 Jul 2001 Posts: 386

Hi Russ,

I agree from a safety standpoint, and safety should be a top priority. The SCK style open practice should be separated into groups, most likely 100cc and down and 125 and up, run in 10 to 15 min sessions. However, I'm not sure how the numbers work out, since it seems the 125's are growing very fast, the 250's growing, and the 100cc stuff getting smaller. But I can tell you that even in a 125, the 250s' really blow your doors off.

Gary K.

Gemma · Joined: 03 Aug 2001 Posts: 70

DON"T MIX PRACTICE SESSIONS under any circumstances, a few weeks ago, an 11 year old boy was killed in Australia.

Debbie Kuntze

The bad news about SCK is we might get 1 junior. Depending on turnout ratio for 125 and up vs. 100's and down, we make the decision to do split or not at the drivers' meeting and depending which track and track layout we are running. Then the radios are manned constantly to gauge how the sessions are going (crowding wise) plus, I am generally also doing laps during each session. 9 times out of 10 the first couple of sessions have vertually no one going out the first 5 to 10 minutes of a 20 minute session. Then later on it reverses. If there is a pack on the grid, put your helmet on slower and by the time you are ready, the first wave is coming off. Or be there first and ready to go at the drop of the flag and you get clean laps several times around! Common sense works real well and I am proud to say the SCK drivers display LOTS of it

(At times though it does go out the window during racing, but that's another problem!)Driver safety is never overlooked!
SCK generally runs 20 minute sessions, but if no one needs a pick up we don't close the track. Earlier this year there was open practice for over an hour! That's realy cool and everyone got lots of track time for the $ spent. BUT-track fees and availability is going up and getting harder to post dates. There could be more one day events in the future, which greatly cuts down the practice time. Example, the race next week at Streets-two hours of practice time is available. If we have to split you will get two full 15 minute sessions for sure, 3 if there are no kart pick ups between sessions. So instead of 2-3 HOURS of practice you will get 30 minutes minimum, maybe 45.
Need to keep the racers safe and happy, always have to work all angles!
Debbie K

Ed Llorca

I have always had a unique opinion on this. I drive a 125 so I know about catching slow guys and I know about getting passed by 250's. I find that there are three types of scenarios I encounter.

1) Cars with equal speeds - not a big problem practice is unhindered if the follower leaves room between them, safety not an issue particularly.

2) Cars with large speed difference - I do not find this to be a problem. The speed and power difference allow the passing kart to get around the slower effortlessly anywhere on the track they want. Faster karts also have bigger brakes and stickier tires and can come to a halt quickly when needed.

3) Cars with dissimilar speeds but different characteristics - This is problematic to me as the passing kart cannot 'blow off' the slower one and must resort to a 'race pass' to get around and could cause a problem. I see this most between shifters and certain laydowns where they drop the anchor in the corners but scoot well down the straights.

I would guess that it has to come down to driver maturity and safety conciousness during practice. I for one have no issue with open practice and as a racer feel it is the only way for drivers to get practice in. It is too hard to synchronize changes to the kart with the revolving sessions and a lot of time that we don't have gets wasted.

Roger Miller

The question isn't juniors and seniors. It is speed and driving differences. My son, a junior driver is at least as fast and often times faster than many other drivers in various clutch classes. Both in his sit-up and in his laydown. This is demonstrated every time he races as they put the juniors in the back of the field for a race group and he moves up into the field towards the front during the race. In his laydown, the way he is grouped right now, he passes the entire field in front of him in the first 2 laps.

I do think there should be some seperation of disparate classes during practice. I have posted before that I warn my son to be careful of shifters in front of him when approaching certain turns. As was mentioned above, the shifters drop an anchor and then rocket out of the turn and my son is trying to preserve all of the momentum possible through the corner and has had a close call a couple of times in turns 5 and 9 at Thunderhill.

Sessions worked real well at the RRGN in Portland.

Larry Ferguson

quote:
Originally posted by Roger Miller:
As was mentioned above, the shifters drop an anchor and then rocket out of the turn and my son is trying to preserve all of the momentum possible through the corner and has had a close call a couple of times in turns 5 and 9 at Thunderhill.
Portland.[/QB]

Roger, you make it sound like all Shifter drivers are nobs. You have obviously had some experience with a few drivers that were not of the best caliber. I can assure you that a good driver (in any class) is not going to "drop anchor" in the turns, as you put it. It will depend on that particular driver's skills. As for the mixing of classes, I feel strongly that they should be seperated by class (i.e.speed capabilities), most definatly. Whether or not a driver has better brakes, or stickier tire, won't matter one bit when a faster car collides with, or rear-ends a much slower one. You don't see Atlantics on the track with Champ cars do you? Think about it. It should be common sense.

Roger Miller

Larry, sensitive aren't we...

I quote myself below...

quote:
It is speed and driving differences...
...I do think there should be some seperation of disparate classes during practice.

I agree gosh darn it...

And I didn't make the "drop anchor" first... check above...

[ August 29, 2001: Message edited by: Roger Miller ]

Mike Weaver

Don't forget that the practice and race classes are merged to help get everyone's racing in. If we granted everyone their own couple of practice sessions and their own race, that would mean about 5 classes per day.

Common sense needs to be used when determining what classes will be on the track at the same time. However, there will always be fast guys and slow guys. I lapped a guy in my own class twice last year in a 30 minute situp sprint race at Road America! What can you do?

Larry Ferguson

quote:
Originally posted by Roger Miller:
Larry, sensitive aren't we...

I quote myself below...

I agree gosh darn it...

And I didn't make the "drop anchor" first... check above...

[ August 29, 2001: Message edited by: Roger Miller ]

No Roger, I'm not sensitive, I would consider myself sensable. And forgive me if I was mistaken, but it did appear as if it was your reply that stated that the Shifter guys were the ones who drop anchor in the turns, as your son was trying to carry his speed. I must have been reading someone else's comments. I am not too bright, sorry.

Russ Warr

The big problem with this issue is that sit up karts and lay down karts run much different lines through the turnes. Just watch Don Bootes get around Big Willow and you will understand what I am talking about. The lay down guys are making much wider sweeping turnes than lets say a shifter kart. Also the visability in a lay down is not as good. The only thing scarier than passing a yamaha sit up with no body work in an Unlimited kart is seeing a thirty something mom in an SUV on the phone turned around yelling at the kids while going down the car pool lane at 75 MPH.....

Russ

scott berkheiser

Running a laydown these are the things that I see cause problems in combined practices.
Getting caught behind a kart that has more straight away speed but brakes harder for the corners and I see this with all types sit-up, shifters, laydowns. But the biggest problem I think is that most situp drivers don't understand how limited the visibilty is in a laydown compared to a sit up. If you are not at least along side my head before I turn into the corner I don't know you are there. I can't count the number of times I 've committed to a corner then the guy sticks his nose in and thinks I cut him off.

The other thing is this is practice don't race with a guy in a different class. He is probably trying to get a laptime and you will be messing him up.

Scott

Larry Ferguson

quote:
Originally posted by Scott Berkheiser:
But the biggest problem I think is that most situp drivers don't understand how limited the visibilty is in a laydown compared to a sit up. If you are not at least along side my head before I turn into the corner I don't know you are there. Scott

All the more reason to seperate the different classes when sending them on to the track. If not, there will be a very serious accident! It's oly a matter of time.