The 1% weight rule at Thunderhill?????

Steve Moore

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Paul:
[QB]Scott,
But you add the (illegal) Programable ignition that he had and maybe that was a foot and a half worth.

I think a PI is worth more than a foot and a half. Didn't think they were illegal though. Guess I should check the rule book too.

Tim Paul · Joined: 21 Jul 2001 Posts: 326

Pete,

I couldnt agree more! I know and accept that if I am under weight that I would be DQed. This series is very improtant to me so I made sure that I checked the scales and my weight to make sure I would be over.Everyone does have to use the same scales and they are available to everyone before the first heat race and before the second heat race.

Steve,

The last thing I wanted to do was start a PI discussion. It is a valid point but there are a TON of PI topics already. Refer to the 2001 IKF rule book page 46 section 312.7.3.9 about the ignition systems rules for the Formula 80 senior sprint. (#18)

Once agen thanks for all the feedback!

Tim Paul
Pro Race Designs
Proracedesigns@aol.com

Rob Jones · Joined: 02 Aug 2001 Posts: 95

Tim,

I can't agree with you more about the weight issue.

I went over the kart in question and I could not find a PI, where did he have it mounted? It must have been well hidden. I know that a track offical looked all the karts over very well just prior to the heat, and it must have got by him too.

Rob Jones

[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Rob Jones ]

Bill Kassy

I can't believe this was allowed to happen. Bottom line - the minimum weight is the minimum weight. I know that we weigh our karts at least two times prior to the race to ensure that we know where we are, as well as to check the consistency of the scales. The accuracy does not really matter too much, but the precision or consistency is what counts.

At a local sprint track around here, the local hot shoe was allowed 5-6 pounds, until the rest of the competitors started protesting the weights. All of a sudden, he started to weigh the legal amount. Then the competitors required a tech inspection at the end of the race. Next thing you know the local hot shoe wasn't!

[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Bill Kassy ]

Tim Paul · Joined: 21 Jul 2001 Posts: 326

Hey Rob,

Email me. I dont want to start a PI discussion.

Tim Paul
Pro Race Designs
Proracedesigns@aol.com

David Tallant · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 35

You have been screwed.
It is the racers responsibility to make weight, Every time. On the official scales, no mater how they weigh.
I think even SKUSA can agree on this rule.

Rob Jones · Joined: 02 Aug 2001 Posts: 95

quote:
Originally posted by Mitch Gillick:
Russ,

I believe that everyone that was under weight kind of jumped on the band wagon, saying; "The scales must be off".

In the May 5th race at Thunderhill, I was DQ'd for being 3 pounds light... No one's fault except my own.

That taught me was to pay attention... And, subsequently, at the July 7th race I weighed in 'dead-on' after the 1st race and 3 lbs over after the 2nd race (Note: Prior to the 2nd race, I added 5 lbs of lead to
compensate for water loss). Then, at the August 18th race (the race day in question), I weighed in 3 lbs over after the 1st race and 'dead-on' after the 2nd race.

If the scales are/were incorrect, at least they are consistent... And, we all had access to the scales, as we came off the track from the test sessions and prior to any of the race events.

Mitch

Mitch,

You hit the nail on the head, but I see another aspect of cosistentcy. Consistentcy is the key,at the scales, and with the rules. If we allow one club to allow a 1% rule and another club running under IKF jursidiction to fabricate another rule, you will see the some real issues come up at the national events. Look at what happened at Portland.
Clubs not enforcing national rules, then someone comes along and rightfully, and correctly, enforces the IKF rules and all hell blows up. Clubs owe it to the members to hold to the national rules.

Rob

Pete Howarth · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 40

Hey I was DQ's on May 5th too! It must have been the scales! Ha. J/K It was my first race ever and I was 6 pounds under weight.

I know you all take this seriously, but it is a club race where everyone is trying to be nice. I understand that there are points on the line. But it was clear to me that if I'd been closer to the weight limit, I would have been ok. They gave me the impression they just wanted everyone to meet the spirit of the rules. I think you should be careful what you ask for, but if you want the rules strictly enforced, then bring it up at the driver’s meeting or the next club meeting. Heck, volunteer to help the volunteer officials! I know they were asking for help when I was there. I don’t like hearing that the driver was sucking down water to make weight though. That seems to be slipping out from under the spirit of the rules.

When I got my DQ, I tried pleading my case that I came in last place, but they smiled and said sorry. I went back to my pits and added 5 pounds of lead and lots of gas. Then I was 6 pounds over…go figure.

Hey we could make it like Moto-Cross where there is not weight minum inforced and we can go spend lots on Ti and carbon fiber!

Debbie Kuntze

I too agree with Pete. Everyone has to use the same scales so you adjust to the scales BEFORE your race. (Although it does tick you off if you weigh more at the end of the race, but then everyone els is too!)

Roger Miller

We run the junior classes with NCK. Last year we were DQ'd for being 1lb light after a race. And this was with no changes to the kart... meaning we should have been 3lbs over. But not the point...

Point 1 - NCK races are NOT just a club race. They are IKF Region 11 Road Races and NCK club races.

Point 2 - at the RRGNs at Willow in 2000 the scales were real touchy. Test weighing showed intiially, 5lbs light with full fuel tank. Ran a couple of practice sessions, ran off fuel, and then weighed at weight. No other changes. Then added 5 lbs. Checked weight, now 10 lbs over. SO it was all over the board, both days. SO we ended up running at weights that at the end of the races were somewhere between 10 and 15 lbs over weight, just to be sure and not DQ at the RRGNs.

Point being - you gotta pass post race tech and that includes weight.

John Valerio · Joined: 24 Jul 2001 Posts: 650

Tim,
I feel for you....In the club that I run they recommend everyone scale at the last practice session just to be sure. If your under you under!!!!
I have been in a similar situation. That very well has cost me a club championship. When a driver is DQed for taking out 2 drivers (both were in 1st place) and the track promoter DQ's him he's supposed to lose his points in the main and he did. After the following race we got our news letter and the DQ was removed. I called the promoter and said he would allow him to take last place points instead. Thats was a 130 point bonus he got.

Just thought I would share my frusterations too!!!

John Valerio

Tim Paul · Joined: 21 Jul 2001 Posts: 326

Thanks for everyone's comments!

Unfortunately I don't know what can be done about this now, but I think I will have a talk with Terry Ives and see what he has to say.

One of the newest bits of info that bothers me is...

There were two drivers in the NCK class that said they knew they were probably under weight before weighting in, after weighing in and hearing the commotion about the lead driver of the formula 80 class they just kept quit and were happy that they fell within the 1% rule. What happen is that they added to the group of people who were off weight. This is a key part of information that the official used to make his decision.

The problem with the officials statement of "this is only a club race" is that we all come into the season with goals, and a decision like this drastically effects the possibility us making our goals. Most of us go through the troubles to make sure we fall within the rules so that we can achieve our goals. Whether our goals are to win the championship or to place in the top five at the end of the year. This decision negatively effects all of us who were legal.

This is a points championship series NOT "just a club race". A lot of us schedule our whole year around competing in this championship series. If this was "just a club race" then treat it that way. This decision changed the outcome of the championship, in more then just the formula 80 class. The only people who got punished for this decision was the people who fell within the rules. The people who benefited from this decision where the people who didn't fall within the rules. Something does not seem right about this!

I am new to kart racing this year. I have been very impressed with the racing that NCK has put on. In past races NCK has made it a point to prepare racers in our region for bigger IKF races, by keeping us honest with our driving as well as the technical aspect of our karts. I hope that NCK continues this tradition and corrects this problem.

Thank you for all of the feedback!

Tim Paul

Pro Race Designs

Proracedesigns@aol.com