The 1% weight rule at Thunderhill?????

Tim Paul · Joined: 21 Jul 2001 Posts: 326

This last weekend at Thunderhill the weight official thought it was ok to let the winner of the formula 80 shifter class slide while being three pounds under weight.

Actualy he let him re-weigh after going back to his truck and drinking three bottles of water and then he also let him get back on the scales with a full bottle of water in his hand.

After still being two pounds under weight he told the driver to try agen in a couple of minutes. Someone confronted the official that was in charge of the scales about the water that the driver had consumed (and was still consuming), and the oficial said he would not let him weigh agen.

After the driver threw a fit the official decided that he would not DQ him becuase he was ONLY three pounds under weight. I was told by the offical that "this is only a club race".

This decision bothers me for many reasons.

First: We have rules for a reason. You either fall within the rules or you dont!

Second: There are many drivers and mechanics who go through the trouble of weighing before the race and even adding enough weight to make up for lost water weight and a little margin of error. Many of us try to cut it close, and many of us know that if we are under we get DQed.

Third: If an offical is going to let a driver re-weigh they need to make sure the driver is not drinking water or stuffing his pocket with weight. OR AT LEAST NOT HOLDING A BOTTLE OF WATER IN HIS HAND WHILE ON THE SCALES.

Fourth: It was "just a club race". But many of us take it very sereous, and when officials start letting people cheet it takes away from the fun that we are soposed to be having at a "club" race.

The bottom line is that the weight for the Formula 80 shifter class is 360lbs not 357 or 358. Someone made the rule for a reason and NCK goes through the trouble of getting the scales out, maybe they should stand up to upset drivers and make there scales worth something, or leave them at home.

I would love everyones opinion on this.

Tim Paul
Pro Race Designs
Proracedesigns@aol.com

Mitch Gillick

I also witnessed this blatant disregard of the rules, by the above mentioned person, standing on the scales with a bottle of water in his hand.

While I run in a different class, I ran in the same race... And, I was offered a bottle of water, as I was standing in line to be weighed. Naturally, I refused, because my understanding of the rules is that you are
not allowed to consume any liquids prior to weighing in.

In my opinion, the person running the scales had no business imposing a 1% rule, allowing people to run light (up to 1% less than what the rules state)... That is, unless they announce it, prior to the start of the
race, so that everyone has the ability to take advantage of the weight adjustment.

I don't have any problems with any of the rules and/or changes in the rules... Just tell me what they are before we run the race... Not after!

Mitch Gillick

Charlie Tackett

A weight of 360lbs is a weight of 360lbs, period! Same way a bore on our motor is 54mm, not 56mm! Plain and simple and perfectly clear.

As for taking water, the only time drivers should be allowed to consume any water at all is if it is for medical/safety reasons. At times, racing in 100+ degree heat, it may be wise to have the track/club set up a water table immediatley before the scales with a dispenser and paper cups for water. In some classes, it can take considerable time to weigh 40-50+ karts and usually the scales seem to be set-up where the waiting drivers are standing in the open sun on hot pavement.

Unless the driver raced with that bottle of water in his hand, then he doesn't weigh with it. Also, I have reweighed a driver kart, but never did I allow the driver to leave teh immediate area of the scales and generally made them remain their next to the scales with their kart, all in my site. As far as I am concerned, a driver leaving the area and going to their pits or wherever is no different than someone taking their kart back to their pits before reporting to tech for impound! Its a DQ!

Tom Stephens

Here's one definition from Dictionary.com that seems appropriate to me: "official: administers rules of a game or sport".
If the minimum is 360, then 360!

Sounds like the problem was the fact that this "official" does not understand his job!

Tom Stephens
www.kartfinder.com

Phil Clements

IMHO If a competitor wants to cut their weight that close, then they shouldn't be surprised if they get DQ'ed. Sounds like there were more than problems at those scales than just a "1%" rule. (Which I've never heard of!) I would suggest the members of the club take it up with the hidher-ups in the organization. It won't reverse the call that was already made. But, it might keep it from happening again!

Jussy Rusit

Tim, if I were in your position, I would have filed a written protest and gave it to the race director: Terry Ives. With 2 races left and the championship is up for grabs, the point difference between 1st and 2nd plays a huge part.

I'm not exactly sure on why the "scale" person decided to let the "underweight" karts go, but he(#81) was not the 1st person to have the same problem. If I recall correctly, the Rotax Max winner didn't meet the minimum weight in his class also by a good amount, which were run at the same time. They both cited how there was a drastic change between the 1st heat and 2 heat weight values.

But, I agree with you, there is no excuse to let them slide if I they start raising flack about how innaccurate the scale is. IMHO: if the scale is mulfunctioning, let the race director know so he can make the final call.

Don't know what the time limit is for filing a protest... but its not too late to make it an issue for the next NCK BOD meeting.

Tim Paul · Joined: 21 Jul 2001 Posts: 326

Thanks for everyones opinion!

Jessy,
You couldnt be more right about the points. He was in the points leed and now I think this will seel the fate of the championship if he gets the first place points.

The drastic weight difference from one race to the other for me was 2 lbs. I was more then willing to except that I had lost two pounds from lost water weight. Even after I had drank lots and lots of water between heets.

The driver I am talking about was asked by someone how much water he drank between heets, and he said he had one bottle. Now I had at least five and lost two pounds. He weighed 361 (it actualy was bouncing back and forth from 360 to 361)the first weigh in and 357 on the last weight in. He got it up to 358 after drinking three bottles of water and having another in his hand.

Jussy,
How do I go about making a protest. I am kind of new to kart racing and havnt had to go down that road yet.

Thanks a lot!

Tim Paul

Russ McGrane

Were there any issues with the scales? We have all seen scales that seem to weigh 10 pounds different everytime accross them. Of course if this is the case you usually try to overcompensate. Just wondering

Tim Paul · Joined: 21 Jul 2001 Posts: 326

Russ,

My friend in the NCK 80 class right behind us cut his weight really close like he always does (he got DQed earlier this year for being 2 pound under weight. He wegihed in at 379 (should be 380) and they had him push off to re-zero the scales then push right back on. The second time it was bouncing between 379 and 380, it ending up resting at 380 so they let him pass.

Before the race I made sure to go weigh in to make sure I added the right amount of weight. I thought I would be about 5 lbs under weight and it ended up being 6lbs under. So I added 10 lbs to make sure I came in over weight for the second heet.

To answer your quistion no the scales seemed fine.

Tim Paul

Scott Davis

Sounds like it should have been a DQ. My question is. Did the three pounds that he came in lite with really make that much of a difference on the track?

Mitch Gillick

Russ,

I believe that everyone that was under weight kind of jumped on the band wagon, saying; "The scales must be off".

In the May 5th race at Thunderhill, I was DQ'd for being 3 pounds light... No one's fault except my own.

That taught me was to pay attention... And, subsequently, at the July 7th race I weighed in 'dead-on' after the 1st race and 3 lbs over after the 2nd race (Note: Prior to the 2nd race, I added 5 lbs of lead to
compensate for water loss). Then, at the August 18th race (the race day in question), I weighed in 3 lbs over after the 1st race and 'dead-on' after the 2nd race.

If the scales are/were incorrect, at least they are consistent... And, we all had access to the scales, as we came off the track from the test sessions and prior to any of the race events.

Mitch

John Stafford · Joined: 23 Jul 2001 Posts: 251 Location: Danville, Ca

I'm pretty sure that the scales at NCK are not exactly accurate. I base this assumption on observing the difference in the weight of my own kart on other scales. However, that doesn't matter. It is up to us (the competitors) to meet the minimum weight at that particular event, period. The line between legal and DQ is very clear and should be enforced for all the right reasons.
Tim, I hope you are successful if you protest this issue, it will show the club that we want things done crrectly and fairly.

Jussy Rusit

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Paul:
...Jussy,
How do I go about making a protest. I am kind of new to kart racing and havnt had to go down that road yet.

Thanks a lot!

Tim Paul

Don't have my IKF rulebook with me, but if I recall. You have to write down the details of your protest within the same day of the event and give it to the race director at that event. The race director would then decide at that point and also address the issue at the next NCK BOD meeting.

Tim Paul · Joined: 21 Jul 2001 Posts: 326

Scott,

I think that we make rules so that people follow them. There is NO gray area about weight.

Did the driver win because of the weight. He did only finished about a a foot and a half in front of the second place driver. Did he get the foot an a half from being four pounds lighter then him? Probably not. But you add the (illegal) Programable ignition that he had and maybe that was a foot and a half worth.

Hey we have all looked at the IKF rule book and there is plenty of gray areas that could be miss understood. But why dont we follow the ones that are clear.

That aside. My bigest problem is that the official passed a driver that clearly broke any sportsmenship by pounding bottle after bottle of water to make weight. It would be a lot easier to swollow if he just stated his case without cheeting.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone, keep it coming.

Tim Paul
Pro Race Designs
Proracedesigns@aol.com

Pete Muller

In the mid 80's, I was DQ'd after winning Open Light at the Laguna Seca Enduro Grandnationals... for being 6 ounces underweight. No water drinking allowed... no nuthin'. I was allowed to place the kart in the scale in various positions, but the scale didn't care.

My own fault... cutting it too close.

Underweight is underweight... doesn't matter if it's a milligram or 20 pounds in my book.

If the scale is being flaky, then it's up to each competitor to make sure they are on "the good side" of the fluctuations. It's the same scale for everyone.

PM