Tragic Accident at Summit Point

[Erik Frank]

Interesting, because I would think that a rider or bike sliding along the pavement towards a section of Air Fence would be just as low (and threfore susceptible) to going under the barrier as a kart would. Maybe the concern was for a laydown kart?

In fact, from a physics standpoint, if it works well for a bike, it should work even better for a kart. Bikes tend to slide easier (on the pegs, fairings, etc) and they definately weigh more than a kart. So the kinetic energy at impact is probably going to be higher.

However with the tragedy that started my thoughts original about airfence, I'm not so sure. A loss of brakes and the high speeds means that there probably wasn't much the driver could do to bleed off speed before impact.

Nevertheless, with regards to what the people at Mid-Ohio said, I'd certainly run that one by the Air Fence people. If there really is a valid concern, I'm sure that they would be amenable to find a solution. It is, after all, in the interest of safety.

[Tom Stephens]

At http://www.airfence.com/html/airfence2.html there is a photo of a "skirt" that they claim "in our testing we have been unable to penetrate under..."

Tom Stephens
www.kartfinder.com

[Martin Secrest]

The Airfence looks like a nice solution, but wouldn't simple hay bales work to some degree? What happens when a kart hits a line of hay bales? Is the deceleration adequate, or too severe? Perhaps a series of hay walls would work, spaced 50 yards apart? The bales could be wrapped in plastic for appearance and protection from the elements, and it would be a simple thing to build a trackside shed for keeping them.

Better than nothing, IMHO, and nothing is unacceptable.

[Erik Frank]

quote:

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Originally posted by Martin Secrest:
The Airfence looks like a nice solution, but wouldn't simple hay bales work to some degree? What happens when a kart hits a line of hay bales? Is the deceleration adequate, or too severe? Perhaps a series of hay walls would work, spaced 50 yards apart? The bales could be wrapped in plastic for appearance and protection from the elements, and it would be a simple thing to build a trackside shed for keeping them.

Better than nothing, IMHO, and nothing is unacceptable.

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At a road race in Lubbock, TX two months ago at Reese AFB, I had the distinct pleasure of center-punching a haybale in my 125cc shifter when my kart understeered wide in an 80 mph sweeper. Fortunately, it was an unbound bale, and this particular bale was not placed in front of one of the taxiway marker lights, which were set in concrete!

I hit that sucker dead-nuts square, and hay went everywhere, but there was little, if any damage to my kart (or me). The CIK nose was not even dented. I was able to continue the race. I think it did some good, but it also scattered straw all over the track surface. If there was an immovable object behind that bale, however, things would not have been so rosy.

I can distinctly remember heading toward that bail and thinking something like "Oh man, this is not good!"

[Dave Ridenour]

To All,
The crash pillows I was suggesting are simply made of mattress material on the inside and a vinyl cover that zips up around it. They are about the same size as the air pillows that you have been discussing but are a lot cheaper. We made a deal with a mattress manufacturer where we took all their scrap pieces (this is ideal because it is water and flame resistant already, and the covers hold them together), which helped them by taking care of having to send it to a land fill, and they had someone make the covers. I believe that these pillows are around $800-$1200 (this may be the cost of having them make material) but can't remember for sure. What everyone needs to do is to talk to the track owners and club Officers that you run at about this and then talk to any mattress manufacturers possible. If we get crash pillows at all the major tracks where WKA and IKF run then the other tracks will probably follow. I know the manufacturer that we are using has already made plans for their scraps for us, but they can make some new filler for a price. These pillows stay at the track and can have sponsor ads on them so if you can find sponsors for the track or club this could - in time - pay for some or most of the pillows. Another way to bring in money for safety is to have 50/50 drawings and make that money go straight towards safety.

Just another option,
April Ridenour

[Martin Secrest]

quote:

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These pillows stay at the track and can have sponsor ads on them so if you can find sponsors for the track or club this could - in time - pay for some or most of the pillows. Another way to bring in money for safety is to have 50/50 drawings and make that money go straight towards safety.

Just another option,
April Ridenour[/QB]

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April:

Thanks to you, and everyone, for the information posted here. I'll be taking all of this up at the Woodbridge Kart Club's next general membership meeting next week.

[Charlie Tackett]

First of all, our condolences to Ronnie's family, friends and fellow racer's on this tragic loss.

After watching a bike go off coming out of the carousel at RA and into one of those airbag walls, I was duly impressed!!
Erik, do you know where one get gat more info on those? I waws considering contacting the AMA or somebody to find out more about them.

One of the main reasons I don't like the majority of "rovals" is the amount of time and the speeds obtained running down those unprotected concrete canyons and thru gaps in concrete walls.

[ July 24, 2001: Message edited by: Charlie Tackett ]

[Charlie Fox]

Charlie I just went to the url above and they have a bunch of info on the air fences. http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/index.html.

I also found http://www.airfence.com/ the makers.

[ July 24, 2001: Message edited by: Charlie Fox ]

[Bernie Schatz]

As an Ex enduro racer for 18 years I too am sad to hear of the passing of Ronnie Jackson. Unfortunitly not much will be done about long track safety because of one thing: $$$$. I know this will strike a nerve, but entry fees are much too low for enduro events. The only way to raise the money needed to improve safety is increase entry fees. I race a Spec Racer Ford in SCCA regional and national events in the midwest. Our entry fees range from $165.00 to $210.00 PER CLASS! Last time I looked Karting entry fees they were arround $45-$65? Point is, if fees were raised to $100.00 per class, imagine what could be done with the extra cash. If an extra $100 per weekend keeps people from attending enduro events perhaps they should not be there in the first place. How much would you pay to race at Indianapolis Motor Speedway? Rest in peace, Ronnie.

[Abhi Ghatak]

They also didn't tell us about Mr. Jackson's condition until after the day's racing had resumed and finished, something I find more than a little distasteful.
_____________________

The reason that they waited was so someone could be with Ronnie's wife before the news became public.

[Bill Kassy]

As we speak, many karters who frequent Summit Point in West Virginia must be wondering whether they can continue to race there in the wake of this second death at the same corner.

==================
As past president of the WKC, let me put my 2 cents worth.

We have looked at the various suggestions, and we did get a committment from the track owner to store whatever device we come up with at his track, free of charge. However, as typical in the volunteer community of enduro karting, we just ran out of inertia and fell into complacency.

And yes, Summit Point is a whole lot safer than it used to be for the majority of vehicles that race there. Unfortunately, what works for 85% of the vehicles may not work for karts, and may in fact lower the safety of the track for karters.

At VIR, for the premier kart race in 2000, we worked with the track people to ensure that haybales were placed in certain areas that normally were unguarded for cars and motorcycles. These helped.

Areas where WKC has provided safety improvements.

o Introduced Can type mufflers to slow down karts for novices.
o Introduced a novice school for all entry level karters.
o Instituted a mandatory safety pre-inspection.
o Instituted a mentor system for novices.
o Instituted restrictor plates for exhausts for entry level classes.
o Required minimum width tires for certain classes of karts.
o Required safety vests for juniors.
o Recommends aircraft hardware for fasteners on the brake system.

Now for new areas that the club will hopefully explore...

So it is a double edged sword -

1. Do you pay for the added safety equipment out of your own karting budget? If this systems costs for example $25k and an additional $5k per year for storage and set-up that would require an additional $5000 per week-end or approximately $25 additional entry fee per week-end. Doesn't sound too bad - unless you have a rain-out or two for the first two races of the season.

2. Do you tell the track that you won't race there unless certain changes are made? The track tells you that he can rent out your 5 week-ends a year for two to three times what you are paying; then you just lost your track.

3. Do you require mandatory safety changes to karts to reduce the likelihood of catostrophic failure, such as minimum brake rotor size, tire size, etc? This puts the emphasize and the cost onto the individual karter and may increase the liability of the sanctioning body - since they mandated the changes.

4. Do you require additional safety equipment such as safety vests? This also puts the onus on the individual karter. I believe WKC requires safety vests for juniors.

5. Do you require even more rigorous safety inspections of the karts? I firmly believe that WKC has led the whole nation in safety inspections and has instituted significant requirements on the safety wiring of the brake components.

I think a combination of the above WILL result in tremendous safety increase and will ultimately result in a safety benefit for all those involved. You can be sure that I will work to no end to ensure that a safety improvement plan will be put in place for WKC and for WKA to end these and similar tragedies!

Bill Kassy
ex -WKC pres

[Mike White]

My condolences to Ronnie's family.
I had alot of problems with the brakes on my B stock kart. I finally fixed them by using the big front brake systems, using 2 rear disks, and going to braided stainless lines for the entire system. I also use aircraft grade bolts on the system. The braided stainless lines were without a doubt the biggest help. They got rid of airleaks I used to get with the nylon lines. I'd suggest these things be required on all of the B stock karts.

[Martin Secrest]

quote:

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We have looked at the various suggestions, and we did get a committment from the track owner to store whatever device we come up with at his track, free of charge. However, as typical in the volunteer community of enduro karting, we just ran out of inertia and fell into complacency.

1. Do you pay for the added safety equipment out of your own karting budget? If this systems costs for example $25k and an additional $5k per year for storage and set-up that would require an additional $5000 per week-end or approximately $25 additional entry fee per week-end. Doesn't sound too bad - unless you have a rain-out or two for the first two races of the season.

2. Do you tell the track that you won't race there unless certain changes are made? The track tells you that he can rent out your 5 week-ends a year for two to three times what you are paying; then you just lost your track.

3. Do you require mandatory safety changes to karts to reduce the likelihood of catostrophic failure, such as minimum brake rotor size, tire size, etc? This puts the emphasize and the cost onto the individual karter and may increase the liability of the sanctioning body - since they mandated the changes.

4. Do you require additional safety equipment such as safety vests? This also puts the onus on the individual karter. I believe WKC requires safety vests for juniors.

5. Do you require even more rigorous safety inspections of the karts? I firmly believe that WKC has led the whole nation in safety inspections and has instituted significant requirements on the safety wiring of the brake components.

I think a combination of the above WILL result in tremendous safety increase and will ultimately result in a safety benefit for all those involved. You can be sure that I will work to no end to ensure that a safety improvement plan will be put in place for WKC and for WKA to end these and similar tragedies!

Bill Kassy
ex -WKC pres[/QB]

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Bill:

Good points -- and I'd say all of the above are not just possible, but necessary. The cost is not prohibitive, and if it were presented as a one-time expense (as were, for instance, transponders), I don't think anyone would have a problem with it. Safety vests definitely should be mandatory. Higher brake requirements for B-stocks and other karts that go over a certain speed would help. To effect the above changes, it wouldn't be necessary to present them as a mandate to the track owner, just the club itself. The club members would pay up and turn out, I guarantee it, particularly if the new requirements amounted to only a few hundred dollars. The requirements could be phased in over several years if necessary, and inertia on the part of the club leadership just shouldn't be allowed to stall the changes.

My lucky .07 cents worth.

[Erik Frank]

Just an FYI.
There is an updated news brief today at Roadracing World regarding the air fence deployment at the CMRA race at Texas World. Somebody got the unfortunate opportunity to test it. No injuries.
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=1072

Also, changing brake system specifications to require better hardware might not be a bad idea. However, the only way to effectively re-write the rules is to completely investigate this accident and determine what the failure mode was.

[Charlie Fox]

Johnny Jacumin responded on the big south site about the wreck and this is his statement copied.


As for a inquiry into Ronnie's accident, It began immediately at the track and is ongoing at this time. These things take time. The West Virginia State Police have taken there recounts from the eye witness and will forward their reports and findings to the WKA Office. The WKA personell are compiling their information and reports. Our insurance carrier will handle their responsibilities. These things take time and must be handled properly. When completed everyone will know and be made aware to prevent in the future.


This is great but I think WKA should have put out a statement to this effect on the web site to ease everyones mind but!!!