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Chris Parks
Joined: 09 Sep 2001
Posts: 1504
Location: Australia, not USA state,
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 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| stephen jarrett wrote: | | seeing as im stuck with 8mm king pins and cant use the sniper adjusters |
Depending on your kart there should be enough material to drill the holes on the KP bracket for the new adjusters. I would think that most chassis would have the required material in the bracket.
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understeer happens on road courses and usually is pronounced with a British accent. Push happens on ovals and usually is pronounced through a wad of chew. Other than that, I don't think there's a difference - Jim Derrig
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Chris Parks
Joined: 09 Sep 2001
Posts: 1504
Location: Australia, not USA state,
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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There is another version of that adjuster which was the prototype that Sniper has not got though they have seen it. The Sniper version is most probably a neater looking version but the original one does not require an aligner as once the front is aligned the user can keep track of the settings using click adjusters. Count the clicks when adjusting, if it did not work count the clicks back. Very easy and very quick, 30 seconds flat to change any setting.
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understeer happens on road courses and usually is pronounced with a British accent. Push happens on ovals and usually is pronounced through a wad of chew. Other than that, I don't think there's a difference - Jim Derrig
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Pete Boyle
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Chris, do you have a picture of this new adjuster. I have a new style and do not have any instructions on how to install them. I need to drill holes for each side in the kart and want to make sure I do it right. I will give me the ability to ajdust camber ans castor independantly.
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Chris Parks
Joined: 09 Sep 2001
Posts: 1504
Location: Australia, not USA state,
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Peter, no I don't. They were the first prototypes built and from that came the Sniper version. Long story and I don't think it gains anyone to re-hash it. I was not aware of any others though it would be silly of manufacturers to ignore the idea. Why it was not done years ago amazes me as it makes a kart so much easier to set up. What type have you got?
Drilling the holes should not be rocket science. I would strip the chassis and do it on a drill press a bit under size and ream the last bit, maybe a ten minute job for a machine shop. The important thing to do is maintain the original KP angle and not allow the adjuster to slop around. If I had the reamer I and no DP I would drill by hand getting someone else to eyeball the angle of the drill.
_________________
understeer happens on road courses and usually is pronounced with a British accent. Push happens on ovals and usually is pronounced through a wad of chew. Other than that, I don't think there's a difference - Jim Derrig
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Pete Boyle
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| They are the style on the sniper web site. I guess my concern was making sure they were in perfectly square so they work as intended. I am putting them in a 09 CRG KT1. |
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Dan Haynes
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 2371
Location: United States, Pennsylvania, Ellwood City
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Has anyone put these on an Arrow X1? Is there enough meat on the yolk to support the extra holes?
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Blaise Haynes
#3 Arrow X1-CIK
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Cook Racing Engines Parilla Leopard |
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Chris Parks
Joined: 09 Sep 2001
Posts: 1504
Location: Australia, not USA state,
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Pete Boyle wrote: | | They are the style on the sniper web site. I guess my concern was making sure they were in perfectly square so they work as intended. I am putting them in a 09 CRG KT1. |
Sniper supply CRG and I don't think you can buy them outside CRG as it is Sniper's company policy to only supply OEM or was in days past. They did intend to supply to other manufacturers but that does not seem to have happened yet, either that or the others weren't interested. I am not involved at all with Sniper or CRG, my involvement ended very early in the project.
I used a straight edge on mine (not the CRG type) to align the back faces and a straight edge and a square to align the inside faces off the rear axle as a reference. There must be some installation instructions with them, they would not be so silly as to not include them.
Mine are easier to adjust and far easier to keep track of the adjustments but in the end do the same thing. The mindset in using them also needs to change but Sniper should include all this info, if they don't it would be short changing their product and that us not something they usually do to their credit.
_________________
understeer happens on road courses and usually is pronounced with a British accent. Push happens on ovals and usually is pronounced through a wad of chew. Other than that, I don't think there's a difference - Jim Derrig
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John Savage
Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Posts: 1252
Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain), not USA state,
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Parks wrote: | | The mindset in using them also needs to change but Sniper should include all this info, if they don't it would be short changing their product and that us not something they usually do to their credit. |
In my experience Sniper provide Zero information on installation or use 
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Dellorto, Mikuni and Keihin Jetting & Kart Set-up Software
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Chris Parks
Joined: 09 Sep 2001
Posts: 1504
Location: Australia, not USA state,
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| John Savage wrote: | | Chris Parks wrote: | | The mindset in using them also needs to change but Sniper should include all this info, if they don't it would be short changing their product and that us not something they usually do to their credit. |
In my experience Sniper provide Zero information on installation or use |
John, is that so? I have never bought or used any of their products but I thought from reading their website some years ago that they would be very good at supplying product use information.
Has anyone bought a set of these and have the instructions that came with them, I would be interested in reading them.
_________________
understeer happens on road courses and usually is pronounced with a British accent. Push happens on ovals and usually is pronounced through a wad of chew. Other than that, I don't think there's a difference - Jim Derrig
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Walt Gifford
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 4290
Location: United States, South Jerrrsey,
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:16 am Post subject: |
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I havn't seen them up close but, I guess the major part of the load is taken up because the king pin is tightened down? Those set screws just look like they would come loose or something with no jamb nuts.
Gif 
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FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician
Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001
Yamaha KT100 Service Center
40 years karting experience |
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Chris Parks
Joined: 09 Sep 2001
Posts: 1504
Location: Australia, not USA state,
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Walt Gifford wrote: | I havn't seen them up close but, I guess the major part of the load is taken up because the king pin is tightened down? Those set screws just look like they would come loose or something with no jamb nuts.
Gif |
No Walt, the KP does not take any more load than it did originally, it just holds things in place on Sniper's version. On mine it does the same thing only with positive detents on the adjustment as mine does not use splines.
Seriously, I thought that these things would walk out the door by the thousands considering their potential, maybe the karters out their just don't get the concept.
I have not used Sniper's version but certainly mine don't move and I don't see why theirs should either.
_________________
understeer happens on road courses and usually is pronounced with a British accent. Push happens on ovals and usually is pronounced through a wad of chew. Other than that, I don't think there's a difference - Jim Derrig
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Walt Gifford
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 4290
Location: United States, South Jerrrsey,
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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That's what I meant, the king pin clamps everything together so the load is not on the set screws.
Can you sight any situations where you would need that system over the 16 position pills with spherical bushings for the king pin? |
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Chris Parks
Joined: 09 Sep 2001
Posts: 1504
Location: Australia, not USA state,
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Walt Gifford wrote: |
Can you sight any situations where you would need that system over the 16 position pills with spherical bushings for the king pin? |
You can't be serious with that question Walt, this is one of your jokes isn't it? An eccentric moves in two planes except at some very concise null points. Move camber and you move caster every time. The question should be
can you site any situation when you don't need it?
Obviously the merits of the product are not self explanatory and I can't understand why that is the case.
_________________
understeer happens on road courses and usually is pronounced with a British accent. Push happens on ovals and usually is pronounced through a wad of chew. Other than that, I don't think there's a difference - Jim Derrig
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Walt Gifford
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 4290
Location: United States, South Jerrrsey,
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Caster might be increased on an open track and decreased on a tight track and you can do this independent of camber with the old pills so, no advantage with the new system there.
Camber is set to compensate for sidewall flex which has to do with the grip level of track and tire. With the old system the caster does change slightly one way or the other for every notch of camber change.
If you have to go two notches with the camber, you can dial in another notch of caster by moving both top and bottom pills so, you're never that far from where you started on the caster adjustment.
So, the new washboard and set screw system is only a slight refinement of the eccentric washer system. The question is do we need the extra expense for that level of adjustment when driver compensation might easily handle the difference? Please give an example.
Thanks,
Gif
_________________
FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician
Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001
Yamaha KT100 Service Center
40 years karting experience |
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Chris Parks
Joined: 09 Sep 2001
Posts: 1504
Location: Australia, not USA state,
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Walt Gifford wrote: | Caster might be increased on an open track and decreased on a tight track and you can do this independent of camber with the old pills so, no advantage with the new system there.
Thanks,
Gif |
How can camber or caster be changed without affecting the other with eccentrics? You are the only person I have ever heard say that. The Europeans haven't figured it out so you had better go over and show them. That is the one reason they jumped on this system, to remove the interaction of the two. Using top and bottom pills only increases the bend in the KP bolt, ever bolted the assembly together without the spindle and watched what happens when the eccentrics are turned?
_________________
understeer happens on road courses and usually is pronounced with a British accent. Push happens on ovals and usually is pronounced through a wad of chew. Other than that, I don't think there's a difference - Jim Derrig
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