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Bob Baldwin jr
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3579
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 Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Dave R : I don't buy into that argument .They certainly could have pulled Carl out for 3 races and put a " DEVELOPMENTAL DRIVER " in his place or gotten another driver that is currently without a ride to run the next 3 races . Looks like Bristol ,Martinsville ,and Phoenic are the next 3 races How about Bill Elliot ? Who would Roush have put in if Carl had to miss 3 races from injuries?
Flash bulletin this just in : It appears that Mike Helton ,Robin Pemberton , THE CAPTAIN RP ,Jack Roush Carl and Brad will be having a sit down meeting to to make PEACE over the whole deal. Sounds like a Major Love Fest to me all will be much better .Perhaps they should invite ROB H as a mediator 
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Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out, shouting, "Holy **** what a ride!!!". |
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Dan Haynes
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 2372
Location: United States, Pennsylvania, Ellwood City
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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remember what happened to carl long last year? they basically put him out of racing for an over-bored engine that he had nothing to do with. the guy was a back runner that rarely made races as it was and blew his motor up so NASCAR inspected it and found it to be illegal. the motor was leased from another company and was not used in the race. he ended up with i think a $250,000 fine and a points loss and was suspended for the season. the problem was that his regular job was as a spotter for a Nationwide team and he almost lost that because of the suspension. the fine just about ran him bankrupt and i think he had to sell everything to pay the fines.
a guy practically kills another, intentionally, and gets a slap on the wrist.
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Blaise Haynes
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Cheyne Daggett
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Posts: 189
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Shoot I would give Carl a big bonus if I were his sponsor. Look at the publicity they are getting and no press is the only bad press. Remember NASCAR is not racing, but a entertainment business. They need to drawn in the fans and the fans want wrecks and drivers that hate each other. They don't want a love feast of clean racing. The only reason I watch NASCAR is for the wrecks. If I want to watch racing I watch ALMS, Grand-Am, F1 (well it is more of a parade then a race) or Indy cars.
Cheyne |
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Bob Ogden
Joined: 22 Jul 2002
Posts: 3446
Location: United States, California, Grass Valley
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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So first you whine because the drivers don't have personalities like in "the good ol' days" then whine because all the drama's been taken out of NASCAR, then people say things like "Dale Sr. wouldn't have taken that crap from some upstart"
So now the gloves come off, PC isn't front burner, drivers are actually getting a little more aggressive, and you're all whining about one taking revenge on a guy that's been known since day 1 to be a overly aggressive.
Here's what NASCAR should do...Hold a race every week. And get rid of the stupid wing. |
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Chad Stapleton
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 4403
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I think the punishment was fair considering that this is big boy racing not karting. This rivalry between Kes and Carl go back over a year ago and Kes has doled out some rank driving himself, so maybe he should be on probation also. It is now over and everybody quit your crying. |
| Quote: | | Shoot I would give Carl a big bonus if I were his sponsor. Look at the publicity they are getting and no press is the only bad press. Remember NASCAR is not racing, but a entertainment business. They need to drawn in the fans and the fans want wrecks and drivers that hate each other. They don't want a love feast of clean racing. The only reason I watch NASCAR is for the wrecks. |
Oh !, intelligent comments there ?
so they let drivers get on with this "motorised fight club" style racing. ?
Fine, what happens when the next car flies into the fence and some debris kills a spectator or innocent driver ( well the protagonist drivers dont matter !) ..??
Not only will it destroy the lives of several families, it will lose a few peoples jobs, probably put a driver or two in jail, give a lot of bad publicity for sponsors etc etc...
... yes, ..intelligent comment ! 
If this really is the type of "entertainment" that the public wants, then we have a major social problem.
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Chad
"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do !!"
Last edited by Chad Stapleton on Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:17 pm, edited 2 times in total |
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Rick Crist
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 3280
Location: United States, Indiana,
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Rick Crist wrote: | | - Carl gets a fine and probation, that’s it. |
I stand corrected, just probation …… no shocker.
| Quote: | NASCAR president Mike Helton said Edwards' action Sunday at Atlanta was "not acceptable," but did not cross the line in what the sanctioning body will allow this season. NASCAR vowed in January to give the drivers more leeway in policing themselves and settling their own scores in an effort to re-energize the sport through more emotion.
"We made it very clear to [Edwards] that these actions were not acceptable ... " Helton said. "We believe [Edwards] understands our position at this point."
Helton said NASCAR is standing behind its "have at it" attitude.
"The clear message, I think, we sent in January was that we were willing to put more responsibility in the hands of the driver," he said. "But there is a line you can cross and we'll step in to maintain law and order when we think that line's crossed." |
| Rick Crist wrote: | | The “as-yet-defined or crossed line“ is now crossed and defined. |
I stand corrected, again. As I said … NASCAR got exactly what they wanted. Free exposure in a weak entertainment industry economy. Kudos to NASCAR’s PR department on this one. Play the hand you’re dealt, bluff your ^%$ off, then push all-in on the River, then come out the Chip leader.
| Tom Jensen wrote: | | If I were a sponsor, I think I'd make it clear that you don't want them out wrecking cars that you paid good money for. |
I could be wrong here, but I'd take it that you’ve never seen a return on the investment (motorsports sponsorship) television marketing analysis, or prospectus, from one of the larger marketing firms or ad agencies. Return on the investment regarding additional free air time and free press, Vs. actual real investment dollars spent. Consumable goods, consumer products, Procter & Gamble and the likes thereof. If you ever get the chance, give one a long deep look. It’s a real eye opener at the upper levels or motor racing, and especially when it comes to NASCAR. Race cars themselves are cheap in the grander scheme of things when all things are considered.
| Tom Jensen wrote: | | I don't think fans are going to tune in so they can see drivers take each other out. They want to get back to their roots but in the past, these kinds of disagreements were settled off the track. Back then they didn't want to tear up their cars because they had to fix it and race it next week. |
If I’m not mistaken Tom, these are two of the January referenced “bars set” when NASCAR PR said … “NASCAR’s marketing campaign for 2010 is all about taking the gloves off and letting the drivers go back to being aggressive.” and "Boys, have at it, and have a good time."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-uf8lxFoR0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2R3iXnNaF8
Checkers or Wreckers, I’m in!!!!!! |
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Dave Robinson
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 1608
Location: United States, Kansas,
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Dan,
Thanks for driving my point home. Carl Long a field filler was not important to NASCAR and I bet did not have a sponsor NASCAR was worried about keeping. Hence he gets hit with a sledge hammer. Carl Edwards gets a firm finger waving after he pulls a real bonehead dangerous move.
Just another reason not to watch the revolong salvage yard. Want to watch truely great sedan racing, tune in for Aussie V8s.
Dave |
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Rick Crist
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 3280
Location: United States, Indiana,
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Dan Haynes wrote: | | he could've killed Brad and possibly several in the stands. |
| Jim White wrote: | | That car very easily could have been in the fence and spewed debris into the crowd again. |
| Bob Baldwin jr wrote: | | What if there had been a Major disaster? |
| Jim Derrig wrote: | | I hope everyone realizes that if a spectator was hurt … |
| Chad Stapleton wrote: | | …, what happens when the next car flies into the fence and some debris kills a spectator or innocent driver … |
Said with the utmost respect, and I do mean that … none of those things happened on Sunday in Atlanta. It’s a What-If Would’a-Could’a deal that didn’t.
Yet the interesting part, one of many, no one here said a derogatory word about Michael McDowell’s rookie driving ineptness when this happened, that was much-much worse in my opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igFNEjhZiuw
http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/headlines/cup/04/04/mmcdowell.texas.quals.crash/index.html
Now then, I guess, using some of the logic displayed here and elsewhere in the media … Michael should have been fined, suspended, or banned for life, and whatever else, for …… driving over his head, not knowing when his inexperience has the best of him (reminiscent of ones temper on Sunday), not knowing his on track limitations, not knowing when to lift when you know turning-in, the car is too tight (audio at the 50 second mark as well as his own remarks in the written interview ) … thus, endangering his own life, endangering the lives of possible spectators that would’a-could’a been in the stands, and lastly … totally destroying a really good ESR race car that sponsor Aarons Rents bought and paid for. I know, I know, I know … it’s just not the same in Michael’s case in Texas, or better yet … it’s just not the same with Scott’s blatant premeditated payback assault in Toledo. The smaller track wishes it all away, right. The same thing that got to Scott in Toledo is the exactly same thing that got to Carl in Atlanta. Yet not one derogatory word here about Scott’s actions that lost him a ARCA Championship. Interesting how this all works, now isn’t it.
| Chad Stapleton wrote: | | If this really is the type of "entertainment" that the public wants, then we have a major social problem. |
The hardcore NASCAR community has repeatedly said the same thing about Scott from day one of entering the Tin-Top scene. The latest?
http://www.sportingnews.com/college-basketball/article/2010-03-04/flys-rumorama-jimmy-v-hank-gathers-celtics-scott-speed-amanda-
Seriously, do we, society, really need to know this information? If so, then yes Chad, we do have a major social "entertainment" problem. |
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Dan Haynes
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 2372
Location: United States, Pennsylvania, Ellwood City
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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i'm not real familiar with Scotts case. your argument with McDowell is not even in the same realm as Edwards. McDowells might have been a case of inexperience, but Edwards was clearly intentional and blatant. He knew the potential outcome of what he did. He might not have meant for it to happen, bur he knew it was a possibility. If it were truly a racing incident and someone gets hurt then that's what can happen at a race, it's part of it. To intentionally take that risk is over the line.
I hope him and others have learned something from this. Bristol and Martinsville are probably the only tracks that it should be tolerated at because of the slower speeds. Any other track is off limits.
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Blaise Haynes
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Jeff DeMello
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 2213
Location: United States, Pittsburgh Pa,
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't that same move make Earnhardt sr a hero
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Jeff DeMello
Emmick F125 Pavesi |
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Bob Baldwin jr
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3579
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeff DeMello wrote: | | Didn't that same move make Earnhardt sr a hero |
Sorry Jeff but it made Big E an A--Hole Eventually leading to his own demise 
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Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out, shouting, "Holy **** what a ride!!!". |
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Rick Crist
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 3280
Location: United States, Indiana,
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Dan Haynes wrote: | | your argument with McDowell is not even in the same realm as Edwards. |
I fully understand your positioning, and respect your opinion immensely … I just don’t agree. So I’ll agree to disagree in a gentlemanly manner. The point being, the only point that was being made in my estimation, and I furthered that point - - - All three drivers made adult “no regard” decisions that could have hurt or killed someone including themselves. That was the point of the postings I quoted isolating Carl, if I’m not mistaken.
As with Michael’s case in Texas - | Michael McDowell said/ wrote: | "I came off of [Turn 4] on that last lap and it just felt a little bit off," McDowell said. "I went down into [Turn] 1 and I don't know if it was the oil dry or something happened …
"I told the guys, 'Man, this thing feels really tight. I'm going to run another lap,'" he said.
"Then I got down in there and it just started to pull right on me. I tried to gather it up and as soon as I turned back to the right, the front tires hooked up and it started rolling down from there. |
The car was junk, he knew it, then he proceeded at his own freewill (that would be intentional and blatantly, as you said) anyway with “no regard” to himself or others. Slow down or park it and fix it, you’re already in the show on points … but no, he proceeded anyway, intentionally. The outcome is what you get. Carl, Michael, and Scott all made adult decisions that could have hurt or killed someone. That was the points being made referencing what I quoted if I‘m not mistaken. Yet the “someone is going to get killed” outcry isn’t applied on two “no regard” instances but yet is applied to a third “no regard” instance is a bit hypocritical.
| Dan Haynes wrote: | | I hope him and others have learned something from this. |
The only thing any of them have learned yet comes from the mouth of NASCAR president Mike Helton himself.
“but did not cross the line in what the sanctioning body will allow this season.”
“there is a line you can cross and we'll step in to maintain law and order when we think that line's crossed.”
| Jeff DeMello wrote: | | Didn't that same move make Earnhardt sr a hero |
Yep. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQmN9G_X7oc ……  |
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VINCE SCHNEIDER
Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 311
Location: United States, Indiana, Carmel
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:15 pm Post subject: The Lounge |
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This discussion would have been better "OPINED" if the lounge was still up.
Totally dumb move on Edwards part, even after just having his first baby.
I am sure the wife had a few choice words to him.
Golf Club to the head maybe!!!!!! |
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Greg Nelson
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 1713
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Even though I'm a Ford and Edwards guy, this was a move of a tool. He should be stripped of his 2010 points and sat for at least 5 races, ....Oh he got a couple races probation,.......ok.
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Brian Mead
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 787
Location: United States, Tennessee, Franklin
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