Is the US Rotax Motor worth $500 more?

[Chad Stapleton]

Sure it's a good thing Oscar, but it sounds like Rotax are exploiting you as "rich and lazy".
If you continue to pay these prices, then nothing will change, but if enough people avoid the "authorised" dealers and buy imports (opportunity here for someone ? ), then eventually they will have to respond to the "market forces". It has been done before.
Something tells me tho', that Rotax may have got their market research pretty accurate !!

[Oscar Aguilera]

If you are rich, can't you afford to be lazy?

Although I am niether( I am a poor working man) I have been exploited. Yes I have been paid to rant and rave of HOw good these karts are because I work "with" a Rotax Authorized Motor Sealer/Dealer. ha ha

Hey the facts are the Average guy getting into karting needs to be in a Kart that will not discourage him or her into quiting. The KT100 is too small and the clutch rules that mandate the motor clutch are only killing the class. The hpv is too small a motor for a low stall clutch with the new driver usually being at least 150#. Motor clutches have a great replacement with a low maintenance axle clutch. The rules in sprint don't allow it in kt100.

The shifter as well stated in another post is too much physically for a newbie that isn't in good shape. (whether or not you learn better lines in a shifter or clutch is another story) Most new karters at this stage of karting are well to do or have extra cash that is used as play $$.

The Rotax answers to all that is needed to get new guys competitive, learn to drive and can concentrate on driving a kart not working on it.

It is worth $500 more!!

[Chad Stapleton]

Well Oscar, If you are comfortable with paying $500 more than the rest of the world, then lets just say you must be:-
"wealthy enough not to take the trouble to buy the same product elseware for $500 less"
-if that sounds better to you than:- "Rich and lazy"

[Oscar Aguilera]

I don't know anybody in Karting that is not fairly well off. I am determined to do well in the RMC and the rules are the rules. I need to get a US motor.
The 2 main reasons I participate in Rotax MAX is the chance to run against some pretty evenly matched competition on a national and maybe World level. The other is the inexpensiveness of running a Rotax.

Let's face it. If I ran a 125 on the PMT I would be racing karts and competing with the best. Or I can compete in Rotax and Race the best.(maybe even Worldwide, not possible in a 125 shifter on the PMT yet)

But apples to apples the driving and chassis prep it takes to compete at both levels is the same, but the maintenance of the two is no where close.

It would be like the difference in buying a 930 slant nose twin turbo Porsche, or buying a 917. Both Porsche but no where close in price.

$500? I am already in the Least expensive class there is. Call me what you want, but $500 whiners are starting to sound like "Tightwads" There are Porsche colletors and then there are the guys that buy a Porsche because of the Mystique and they get double duty out of it driving it to work.

You can only stare at your kart in the garage and understand it is not cheap to race or you can go race.
There is no room for "Tightwads" in racing. I don't believe in "if you can't afford it get out", but golly, were at the bottom cost wise already.

In all defense of Porsche owners there are few not so finacially well off, and a few "Tightwads" as well. And no I don't own a Porsche, I spend all my extra $$$ and time in karting and promoting the sport.

I had a tight wad uncle that had to own a 65 GTO in 1965. He ordered one loaded and really barely afforded it. He had all the options on it. He drove with the windows down in TEXAS because he coudn't afford the gas mileage with the AC on. Was he determined to own a GTO, a tightwad, or maybe really had no business buying that car but he sacraficied to won one?

I sacrafice an extra $500 because I want to race the RMC.

[bird]

The attitude where you are grateful for any crumbs thrown down from your betters left the worlds' most class-ridden society 50 years ago. It's strange to see it alive and well in the USA!

[Keith Archambeau]

Business owners here in the US are faced with a mulitude of cost enhancers. Here's a few.
Taxes
business taxes
employee's taxes
employee higher wages ( than other countries)
that increases taxes.
government regulations, such as osha, epa, aqmd
permits, state & local
goverment mandated insurance
workmans comp. insurance
insurance on everything, some to cover lawsuits
rent or real estate costs
lost revenue due to non-paying customers
security
All these things & more must be paid to stay in business. Also every thing the company buys has these costs incorporated.

[Dave Stevens]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keith Archambeau:
Business owners here in the US are faced with a mulitude of cost enhancers.

---

I think you'll find the constraints of doing business in Europe more difficult than that in the US. Many EU governments have far more stringent business laws and tax structures than in the US. That has been our experience.

The difference in price isn't coming from the dealers, it's coming from SSC or Bombardier. As Andy Seesman has stated, and based on research on my own (including a quote for an engine from abroad), the dealer margin on the Rotax appears to be pretty slim.

Shop around and you'll find a pretty consistent price in the US, from US$1995 to US$ 2195, the MSRP. Based on my experience in the retailing of other items (we operate Web, telesales and a showroom), a selling price that close to MSRP indicates that either there is a constrained supply of the product, or the margins are so low, that it's not possible for the dealers to discount the product much.

In this case, there are plenty available, in the US and abroad, so supply isn't an issue. In terms of the margin issue, this is the exact way that Apple is able to control the channel. They advertise the products at the MSRP, and then sell them to dealers, at a price point where it's not possible to discount them by more than a few points. The difference between Apple and Rotax, is that Apple's structure is consistent worldwide, though due to the exchange rate they may be less expensive in the US.

The question that has been asked, is why is there this disparity. Some people have tried to spin this so that it appears we are "complaining", or "tightwads", when in reality, we have a legit question that deserves an answer. It's not import duties, it's not shipping, it's not the exchange rate or business costs in the US. I can buy the product abroad, delivered to my door in the US for about US$1500, all in. For whatever reason, Bombardier, or SSC has seen fit to charge US consumers a 25% difference in price, compared to the rest of the world. No one, except them can tell us why that is for certain.

Karting is a small world, and this forum is a big part of that small world. I have a difficult time believing that either Bombardier or SSC has not heard of this discussion, at least in passing. Perhaps they dismiss interaction on the Internet as a waste of time. If that is the case, nothing is further from the truth.

This isn't a debate about the merits of the class, or the fun that folks have driving those karts. It's an economic question as to the price difference. Nothing more.

Dave

[Oscar Aguilera]

I get pretty bold sometimes, and I apologize if I offended anyone. But I got to the word "tightwads" after several posts on the same subject. I agree 100% with Dave's last post.

I also stated
1. I don't know why
2. I don't speak for either co.
3. I don't think the $500 difference has to be explained.

The topic was "Is the US rotax worth $500 more".( I have also restated the topic before)

I also said NO. I have read that I just don't get it. I commented on the price fixing itself over time if you just do your thing. Local racing only, buy an import. Want to race the Challenge buy US.

I have said what a great class this is, I have said that it is the least expensive class to run. I know it doesn't matter to you guys because you think you are getting hosed.
I don't blame you, I feel the same way and I work with a dealer to sell them. For $500 less I could sell more of them.

It is like a one time TX Senatorial candidate once made the mistake of saying while a reporter was around (but there is some truth to the saying) "Rape is like the Weather, once you know it is inevitable, just sit back and enjoy it"

Kinda harse and no one likes to get raped but the fact is he was kinda right. He lost.

I have also stated that the price may go up or down to match around the world. Who knows?

Hey this is the Discussion Forum isn't it? We are just discussing this.

[John Denman]

Bottom line, because Americans will pay $500 more.

Why does a Mercedes cost 35% on average more in the US than Germany? Would a Ford cost 35% less there?

In all cases there are some costs that are beyond the manufacturer's control, but it is a tradition to price luxury items in America a little higher.

[Roy Randolph]

There is one issue I do not think anyone has addressed any where in this post. (well maybe to a degree it was).

I have heard that Karting in Europe is light years ahead of of us here in the States. IF this is a true statement I would think the participation in Karting would be a lot higher, would you not agree? IF, again, that is a true statement the scale of economics would be a lot bigger in Europe. Can anyone tell me how many engines were sold in Europe v.s. how many Rotax engines have been SHIPPED to the USA. It stands to reason that if you have a higher volume you can sell at a lower cost. I have also been told that the TOTAL number of engines allocated to the US for 2001 was only 500.(this I can not confirm, but it did come froma a good source). Input would be appreciated.

Also you guys are throwing around that relative term "Rich". WHAT IS RICH? Can some one explain that to me? And who's standards are we using? Sudans maybe, than we ALL are filthy rich! -- Food for thought.

[ August 13, 2001: Message edited by: Roy Randolph ]

[ August 13, 2001: Message edited by: Roy Randolph ]

[Chad Stapleton]

Roy, your argument re market size/ economic scale in Europe vs the US would be valid only if you ignor the other parts of the world (eg Australia) where Rotax have shipped even smaller quantities and sold them at $500 less than the USA
Note Europe population 500+ million
USA population 200 + million
Australian population 20- million(+ sheep !)
Rotax have stated in the past that they have sold more than 10,000 max's in total !
I agree that "rich" is a loose term and only relative to one's own veiwpoint. But from my viewpoint, someone prepare to happily pay $500 more than his neighbour, for the same product, must be "relatively rich"

[Pete Van Ginkel]

Chad,
Do you guys have a "Sheep Light" and a "Sheep Heavy" class?
Pete

[Roy Randolph]

While we are on the subject of price gauging. Why is it auto gas is 15 to 20 cents a gallon higher in a town that refines the vast majority of gasoline than towns that are hundreds of miles away? It has to cost more to get it there. This I can't figure out. Comes out of the same refinery, but cost less the further you get from the refinery. This is what we should be REALLY be concerned about.
Explain that to me.