Rotax Rules Changes Suggestions

[Jon Andrews]

My ideas to improve the US Max Class

1. Allow data aquisition such as Mychron2, Pro, PI etc. Everyone's got em, why force everyone to buy a pathetic H2O/rpm gauge?
2. Allow glass fiber/carbon fiber anywhere EXCEPT brake disks.
3. Raise the weight to 365lbs. My kart is 172lbs ready to race. That leaves 193lbs for the driver + safety gear. The current 355lb rule means the driver cannot be more than 170lbs and be competitive. This is hobby class not a pro class. Advanced hobby racers are not 170lb camel jockeys

If these changes are outside of the rest of the Worlds rules, so be it. I'm sure competitors would understand that if they qualified to the World Finals that the rules would be slightly different. The focus NOW should be to grow the class, the above changes would help greatly.

Just my ideas, what are other thoughts?

[bird]

The situation we have here is that if you race in the qualifying series for the Finals you race to RMC rules, but for the national championships and club racing it's the usual compromise between commercial interests and what the racers want. The result is that no bugger wants to do the RMC because they can win enough for a nice holiday on their prize money from finishing in the top three in one of the three national championships anyway!

- Mary-Ann www.kartlink.net

[John Desouza]

I'd have to disagree with you on weight change. I weigh 140 and have to add 30+ #'s to make the current weight now.

If there is going to be a heavy class added for next year (good idea)then the "normal" existing class should be brought in line with RMC world standards to 352.

I understand there will always be a light guy vs heavy guy issue, but one of the main reasons I went Rotax Max this year was so I wouldn't have to add 60 #'s of ballast.

As far as the MyChron 2's, etc.. they should most definitely be allowed.

[Rob Hogenmiller]

Jon,

It would be cool if they allowed data acquisition units. Although those are expensive and I think would hurt the growth. To say everyone has them is not true.

Along with data acquisition comes a lap top to analyze the data.

I have to disagree on the carbon fiber because it gets expensive.
Think about a kart with....
Floor Pan,
Side Pods,
Seat,
Wheels

Thats a lot of dollars right there. Doing something like that would hurt the sport.

I weigh 185 and come around 359 on the scales. I like to have 5lbs to spare generally. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the weight go up a little though, although next year they will have a Heavy class so it's probably not necessary to move the weight.

If you were to allow the things you suggested some might say, How can I compete with a guy that has...
$500 data acquisition
$1500 lap top
$1000 Carbon Fiber to make his kart light.

$3000, thats 75% more money behind your kart compared to what it cost for the average Brand New ready to roll Rotax Max.

The beauty of the class is that it is low cost, easy to get started in, low maintenence and simple to work on.

FWIW, I do have a Mychron and a Lap Top, but would hate to see someone not get in the sport or go around saying I can't compete because I don't have those things. It wouldn't be good for the growth.

[Saro Marcarian]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Hogenmiller:
I have to disagree on the carbon fiber because it gets expensive.
Think about a kart with....
Floor Pan,
Side Pods,
Seat,
Wheels

---

The Carbon Fiber wouldn't necessarily make anyone go faster. It would, however, provide an option to heavy guys trying to get closer to minimum weight.

That said, there isn't that much weight that can be saved on a kart - especially given the ca$h one would wind up spending to either develop or purchase those parts.

-Saro

[Stephen Buckley]

John,

I understand your views, however in this case, I disagree. I personally think that the rules are durn-neer perfect the way they are. In our region, the RMC weight is 360 lbs. I weigh about 175 with my gear on. With nearly a full tank, I must add 20 lbs. of lead.

When I travel up north of the border to race, they use 352 as the official weight. I have to add 15 lbs. of weight and carry a little less fuel.

The issue of added weight is really mute, however. The new Heavy class should take care of that problem. I'm not in favour of it because it dilutes the running field even more.

As far as your other issues, Rob made some excellent points. The RM allows us to concentrate on chassis setup and basic engine tuning. Also, you can use a data acquisition system... you just can't race with it active.

S

[bird]

There's no point in banning DA IMO. When we bought our kit, we weren't allowed to use it in racing but we got it anyway because we thought it would be useful and save us a few £££ in testing

[Stephen Burnstad]

I sure wish I had to add weight to my kart.
Up here the class weight is 352lbs. when I weigh in at scales I'm 375lbs. Most of my competition is at 352 - 360lbs. I still managed a second place finish in the last club race though. As far as DA goes we all run them up here. Some use My-Chrons some use Alafano. However we don't download anything to computers. We only use the lap times and tach/temp at the races.

[Dennis Brown]

My guess is that the heavy class will out #
the light class. Nobody weighs 140!
DB

[Jon Andrews]

quote:

---

I have to disagree on the carbon fiber because it gets expensive.
Think about a kart with....
Floor Pan,
Side Pods,
Seat,
Wheels

Thats a lot of dollars right there. Doing something like that would hurt the sport.

---

The idea of using composites is simply to get closer to the minimum weight. I most cases carbon fiber, glassfiber etc. do not enhance the component they are replacing, they just remove mass (accepted that less rotating mass is better). By allowing composites, it gives a chance to the larger guys. If you cannot afford the cost of composites as suggested, the larger guy could run the heavy class. This would not cost him/her a single penny. Under the current rules I could buy titanium fasteners+axle, magnesium rims, hubs and a metal matrix composite brake disc, setting me back, oh about $1,000-1,200 and be about 10-12lbs lighter. Cost is not the issue. Don't forget that composites mean glassfiber as well. ONLY the seat can be glass/kevlar/carbon. That means NO brackets, bodywork, battery mounts, floorpans. This is nuts....

On the subject of light & heavy Max classes I have to say this is a bad idea. One of the key downsides of US kart racing is the 40 classes with 3 participants situation. I would rather the Max is kept at one senior and one junior class. If this means I will struggle to be competitive at 20lbs over, so be it. I want to race in large fields, not 3 other people.

Data Aquisition - This would include Mychron2's, Mychron Pro's, PI, Alfano, Stack. I dare say that if you stroll through the pit area of ANY club race you will find that 75% of the people have one of the above. A Mychron2 costs <$500 and a laptop <$300 ,I bought a primo' 233 compaq for that refurbished. That's about 15% of the cost of the kart.
I see that there a number of complaints about tire wear being high with the vegas. I suggest that the cost of the DA would be recouped over the course of a couple of seasons based on more effective use of set-up/track time.

off soap box....

[ July 26, 2001: Message edited by: Jon Andrews ]

[Stephen Buckley]

Good points, Jon. If you are "on weight", why would you spend the money for CF components? If you are "above weight", it would give you a chance. Hmmmmm.... seems logical.

I think the "powers-in-command" are dead wrong to dilute the RMC with a "heavy" class. In all the races that I have ran with the RM, the winner was the best driver with the best setup REGARDLESS of their weight.

As far as the many comments on these forums (fori??) that refer to Americans as "larger" than the rest of the racing community....ahhhhh, that one is pure bulls**t! Maybe the truth is that they are "fatter"! There are tall people, skinny people, people with large frames, on and on... this occurs all over the world, not ONLY in America. However, Americans, it seems, according to many recent scientific studies and surveys, have garnered the market on obeseness, bad diets and poor physical conditioning. So, basically, these "overweight" people want to penalize me because I try to eat right, exercise, and maintain a healthy life style???
Harrrumphf! Harrrumphff!!!!

[ July 26, 2001: Message edited by: Stephen Buckley ]

[Dave Mancini]

Geeze Stephen,

I stay in pretty darn good condition (Eat well, run or bike 4x a week, situps, pushups, etc) and I will always weigh between 190 and 200lbs). Of course, I will always be 6'2". Where does that put me with a fully setup CRG Storm? 390lbs!!!. I would love to see two classes, Standard (352) and Heavy (390). If anything, you can add weight and achieve a more balanced kart and kick our "fat" butts.

Dave

[bird]

try having a 6'2" Junior Max then even worse! not a pick on him (never sits still) and he's 18lb over. We'll have to put 30lb on for seniors next year though

[Stephen Buckley]

Dave,

Our regional RMC/ club weight is 360 lbs. I always add 5-10 lbs for a "safe zone" (fuel usage, scale error, etc). So you are in the ballpark for most of the drivers in our area. In Canada, the regional RMC/ club weight is 352. Many of the drivers are in the 370-400 lb. range.

If you look at the RMC entries for our region, a lot of the guys are well over the 360 lb. weight, yet they do quite well. Stan Owlsley could weigh 450 lbs. and I think he'd still win!

The good thing is when you have to lift your kart onto the stand, it's pretty light. For those of us who have to add weight... uggghh! Herniaville!

[Stephen Buckley]

Okay, I slept on this weight issue (ouch!). Not that my opinion matters much, however, I have to admit the need for a "heavy" class. After talking to a few folks, the "fairness" of the class weight issue is obvious. Since I can reasonably approach the 352 lb. limit (I still must add weight but not much.), I can see a heavier driver's concern if they weight upwards of 400 lbs. So, on this issue I will defer. I also was made aware that the RMC in 2002 will have a "heavy" class available.