Official Discussion Thread - Rotax Grand Nationals

David Harwin · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject:

Pete,

After being punted while running fourth in the first heat race on Thursday I filed a protest with the race director. I never heard one word from any official regarding the protest for the remainder of the event. I was absolutely disgusted with what transpired on the track that day and felt that a win for me would be nearly impossible after finishing 21st in that race. Although I did come back on Friday with a win and a second in the last two heats I only improved my starting position to 9th in the prefinal.

In my opinion the officiating was suspect at best. And because I never heard a word on my protest it would be safe to say that a protest against an official now would be a waste of your time.

Andre Martins · Advertiser Joined: 02 Oct 2001 Posts: 509

David,

Now could you immagine the driver that finished 4th, but officially deserves to be 3rd and go to Dubai. He also protested and did not hear anything.

Could you immagine the driver that put the rain tires when the race was declared a wet race, and than when it finnally starts to rain, he gets all happy and they red flag the race because it was raining.
_________________
Andre Martins
Orlando Kart Center
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Tony Kart World Champion - 1986,1987,1989,1991,1992,1994,1995,1996,1997,1998,1999,2000,2004,2006,2007,2008

Pete Mottaz · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:52 pm Post subject:

Scott G Evans · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject:

don johnson · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject:

Knowing Marshall he gave it 110% and did his dead level best, as I have read nothing about anyone getting hurt he must have done a good job controlling the race. He had a huge job give the guy a bit of a beak, caulk it up to lessons learned for next year.

It’s a done deal folk’s time to think about the Winter Tour as you’ll change nothing about the results of this past national race, it’s in the books.

Rotax is what it is I don’t see things changing either you put up with it or race a different series unfortunately.
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Andre Martins · Advertiser Joined: 02 Oct 2001 Posts: 509

Scott,

I will not look at the link and I will not get a lump on my throat.

I think you are a excellent tech, maybe the best in the business. I have received about 5 phone calls of DD2 drivers that went to you and to the officials complaining about the Arrow chassis being cut and different than the previous ones. The official response was we are aware of the problem and will deal with it.

I was not there, I am just posting on an open forum some of the complaints drivers had with inconsistent calls.

Just for the record, I made an internal bet here of who was going to win the DD2 class. I bet on the Marcel brothers being 1-2.

They are excellent drivers, great people, with a great kart and even more important one of the best tuners in the business. This is not about them or you, its about the inconcistency of the calls that have been made by the Ramos.
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Andre Martins
Orlando Kart Center
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Tony Kart World Champion - 1986,1987,1989,1991,1992,1994,1995,1996,1997,1998,1999,2000,2004,2006,2007,2008

Doug Welch · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject:

Pete Mottaz · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject:

Scott G Evans · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: Injustice corrected...

Dear All -

You may have noticed that my participation on these forums is always predicated by an injustice that I feel can only be corrected by my involvement. This is one of those cases with regard to Mr. Martins' comment about the Arrow chassis in Colorado.

I was approached early after qualifying by a competitor about the Arrow chassis front axle bar being cut in the center and clamped by a single bar clamp across centerline to control the front end flex tuning. This was apparently in conflict with the official ROTAX approval record, a paper copy of which I was handed and within which it appeared the front axle bar was solid across from spindle to spindle. I told the complainant that indeed the issue would be dealt with. This is the only contact I had with the "group of five" Mr. Martins referred to.

Funny thing about papers you get handed at a race track. I have been around and around with homologation papers before, believe me. Handily, I also had an electronic copy on my laptop, as well as the CIK homologation fiche for the chassis.

A quick zoom of the chassis picture on the ROTAX form reveals what is clearly a cross cut front axle bar. The clamp is removed for the picture as requested by the form. The CIK fiche shows a technical drawing clearly denoting the cut bar.

And so, the issue was dealt with as promised. There was nothing to deal with and that self-same action was incurred - nothing. Apparently, the only ones to suffer from my non-action were the ones too worried about the other guy's stuff to concentrate on their own efforts. For that I feel badly - not.

Andre, without comment to the rest of your post, your inferrance of non-compliant equipment, especially based solely in hearsay, is an injustice to the racers and team that you indicted. Ramos never heard of the issue from me, if at all. I dealt with it myself as I am agreed to do. Your position as simply a reporter of others' complaints does not recuse you from blame of false accusations.

Every Arrow DD2 chassis on The Track was as legal as the day is long.

Scott G Evans
National Technical Director
Champ Car ROTAX Kart Challenge

Andre Martins · Advertiser Joined: 02 Oct 2001 Posts: 509

Scott,

As you have very generoulsy explained in your post, there were some doubts and concerns about some cuts on the chassis.

Smaller team they always think the big teams can get away with special equipment.

All they wanted was an explanation. They don't know about CIK fiches, all they want is a fair game.

I will agree that I should not have involved the drivers name and the manufacturer. For that I do appologize.

I also believe the ROTAX program is a fantastic program. Look at the numbers, they speak for themselves. It is just frustating to have so many questionable circunstances after every national.
_________________
Andre Martins
Orlando Kart Center
www.orlandokartcenter.com

www.tonykartflorida.com

Tony Kart World Champion - 1986,1987,1989,1991,1992,1994,1995,1996,1997,1998,1999,2000,2004,2006,2007,2008

Chuck McCue · Joined: 17 Jul 2001 Posts: 2944

All,
I just think it is great that Scott G. comes on this forum and battles all the flack and never wavers from his reputation as a person who keeps the competition fair. Just wish other federation officials could come on EKN and have civil dialog explaining some of the rules and calls they impose.

Scott, thanks for making National level karting better!
_________________
Chuck McCue

Pat Kennedy · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: Rain on ROTAX

Hello All,

I will not comment on this years Grand National Race.....it is not suitable for Internet forums.

Rain & Rotax,
Last year we had the very same issue in the senior final at Road America. Marshall red flaged the race and gave everyone the option to change tires. I asked Marshal...How many laps left? He responded 16 so I changed to a complete rain set-up. 9 laps later it starts to rain.......James and 1 other are the only guys on rain tires. It rains.... and the leaders start spinning off the track and Marshal red flags the race with 7 laps to go. If the race would have gone the proper distance my son James would have won or placed 2nd. I politely reminded Marshall of this fact prior to saturdays repeat, yet he did the same thing to the 2 guys who bet on rains this year.

Respectfully Submited
Pat Kennedy

Curtis Cooksey · Advertiser Joined: 16 Aug 2001 Posts: 311

Me and the rest of the DD2 class got beat by the Marcel brothers not their chassis.

Congratualtions to the Marcel brothers!
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don johnson · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject:

Pete

"I'm simply trying to understand if it is normal to not to be able to make a counter arguement (during the event) to a decision made by an event official."

Bill Wright (Winter Tour) has a protest form you fill out if you disagree with a track offical its reviewed before the start of the next race or heat and you have a decision, usually within an hour or so. There is a time limit I believe on how long you have to fill it out.
I'm not sure if that system was used or not at the rotax nationals but I would have hoped it was as it seems to work well with the Winter Tour races.
I believe most National races have some written form to file a protest.
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Steve Ferrario · Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Posts: 422

Andre,
Make sure you have your facts straight...The Arrow DD2 is Homologated. My stepson, MacKenzie Johnson had the first Arrow DD2 shipped to the US & was used at the 2006 Rotax Grands. The only item in question at that time was the CIK/FIA sticker not being placed on the braided brake lines. That issue was resolved.