CRG 8 Position Camber and Caster Pills

[Derek Wang]

Are there published documents for the new CRG 8 position camber and caster pills? I'm looking for a quick reference guide that is similar to the one published by some CRG dealers for the old style 4 position pills (II, III = more caster/more camber, etc).

After staring at the pills and playing around with some settings, I was able to achieve a setting similar to II/III on my older CRG. However, I'm afraid I won't have the state of mind or the time to goof around with it come race days. A quick reference guide or even some adjustment methodology would help tremendously.

Thanks!

[Freddie Fawcett]

I to was very interested in the new Road Rebel chassis.
I got a real good deal on a 2006 chassis with the 4 pill c/c adjustments and I came to the conclusion that maybe more adjustments might not be good. I may spend too much time tinkering with the thing and not focusing on my driving. In the end I feel as if I saved some money as well as some headaches but thats just my $.02.

I don't mean to take this thread too far off topic but how many other manufactures offer more than 4 pills of c/c adjustments?

C. Fred

[Pat Kelly]

Go to www.lsrmotorsports.com (dealer in South Bend, IN). Scroll down buttons on left to Downloads. You'll find handy CRG stuff there, including Cast/Camb chart.

Most important is the Note to make sure you have them installed correctly. Left and Right adjusters are different. After that, it's pretty easy because you can just watch what happens to the kingpin when you move 'em...
_________________
Pat Kelly
Co-Owner\Tuner
GLPS Shifter #4

[Derek Wang]

I only see the caster/camber chart for the older style 4 position pills on LSR's site.

Looking at the pills a bit more, it looks like the dot on the 8 position pills is equivalent to II on the old pills. The opposite side from the dot is equivalent to 0. Now how do I figure out which side (relative to the dot) is III and which is I?

With regards to the half adjustments in between the primary 0, I, II, III positions -- How do I figure out top/bottom combination equivalencies to "more caster, less camber", "central caster, more positive", etc?

[Dave Malloy]

With other pills I have, the dot is the same as the "0" or blank on my CRG pills. To be certain, check to see if the kingpin hole is closer to the dot and to the "0" or blank.

The standard position according to the CRG chart is for the II to be next to the pin which puts the "0" or blank toward the outside. If the above is true, then the dot should be to the outside.

I don't bother with the numbers, just the dot, "0" or blank and I made my own chart for camber & caster settings. Also, I got some non-offset pills for the bottom so I can have more settings.

Basically, you are moving the offset holes around. Anywhere the pills are turned and the offsets are in the same position top and bottom, the caster and camber will be neutral.

If they are opposite inside and outside, the camber will be max and the caster will be neutral. If they are opposite front and rear, the camber will be neutral and the caster will be max.

I find it easier to just visualize where the dot or offset is, front, rear, inside or outside, on the top and bottom, tilting the kingpin accordingly to get varying increments of camber and caster when making the charts. Using the CRG chart showing relative changes only works from the perspective of the standard setting.

For example, if the kart is set to neutral camber and +2 increments of caster, then the dots on the top pills are to the rear and on the bottom pills are to the front. If the camber is to be set 1 more increment negative and the caster 1 increment less, then either rotate the dots on the top pills to the insides or on the bottom pills to the outsides. With 8 position pills you can change half an increment. With pills that don't have fixed positions, you can get more fractional increments.

If the camber was to be left neutral and the caster reduced by 1 increment in the example above, it could not be done without switching the bottom pill to a non-offset pill, otherwise the caster would have to be reduced 2 increments to neutral by putting the dots in the same positions top and bottom.

[Derek Wang]

Thanks Dave. That certainly gets me started. With the proper state of mind and conentration in the garage at home, I think I can visualize what I want. However, a quick reference chart would help for quick adjustments at the track and for documentation. I would also like to translate my old notes to fit these new pills.

I took pictures of the new pill vs old. From what I have on the kart, the dot on the new pill looks equaivlant to II of the old:





From looking at the pills, it seems that I and III (or two holes from the dot on each side of the new pills) are equal in terms of offset from the bolt hole. This obviously isn't true based on the old charts as III/III is listed as max caster/netural camber and I/I as min caster/netural camber.

[Ken Olson]

Derek,
Find yourself a digital "smart tool" and find out exactly how many degrees of camber(lay the level against the outside of the rim in a vertical position) the standard CRG pills are in what position you race at.. then make yourself a little fixture that will "lay" on the kingpin when the chassis is sitting on end(straight up 90*) on one of those stands for the trailer.. or just fab one up..
then you can check the caster in degrees.. once you determine what the original pills are.. reference that to the new pills.. and find you will move in half increments to the old ones.. inbetween the four that are close to the originals..
_________________
Ken Olson
Pacific NW Tire Services
Major Racing's "Roll N Prep"
BRC Engineering 150RR

[Dave Malloy]

I made charts for the 8 position pills and sent them to Derek. Anyone who wants them can e-mail me at DWMalloy[at]optonline.net (change the [at] to @). They are in Word and PDF format and will come as attachments. They may be useful even if you don't have the 8 position pills.

[Dave Malloy]

I'm still sending these out.

[Walt Gifford]

I find you can adjust caster independent of camber but if you want to change the camber you have to change the caster too.

From the starting position if you move both pills the same amount in opposite directions you can get more or less caster (depending on the direction of rotation) with no camber change.

If you move one pill and not the other you get a small camber and caster change. Move the top one for neg camber and the bottom one for positive camber and the direction of rotation determines which way the caster goes.

If you want more caster with the same camber setting then go back to moving them the same amount in opposite directions again.


Gif
_________________
FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician
Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001
Yamaha KT100 Service Center
40 years karting experience

[Chris Parks]

Ditch the old cam type and get the new ones that change caster and camber independently. It took me a lot of brain power to come up with the basic idea so you guys could do that.
_________________
understeer happens on road courses and usually is pronounced with a British accent. Push happens on ovals and usually is pronounced through a wad of chew. Other than that, I don't think there's a difference - Jim Derrig


Chris

[Jim McMahon]

[Walt Gifford]

Well of course caster will give you more camber when you turn the wheel, that's why it's evil.


Gif

[Chris Parks]

[stephen jarrett]

seeing as im stuck with 8mm king pins and cant use the sniper adjusters
where can i get the 8 hole 8mm adjusters as the australian distributor didnt even know they existed
even though they were on a kart in their show room

unless your kart is brand new the 4 holes are substandard ive been told to leave the locking grubs out then you have infintie adjustment

but id be worried about them moving while under load, and i dont have time as it is let along checking it between every heat