Should Programable Ignintions Be Banned?

Brandon Schroder

Here are my thought on this subject. The guys who have money have money, and if they cant spend there money on ignitions the they will spend there money on porting, boring ext. Programable ignitions are not all that much money when you look at it all.So bascily what it comes down to is either you ban every kind of engine mod out there or you should just leave it completly open!which im sure most of you wouldnt like to see happen because toying with the motors is half the fun of the sport

Michael Mihld · Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Posts: 116 Location: Temecula, CA

Brandon is dead on...

Why leave open rules for engine modifications and then restrict PI? Doesn't make sense.

PI is a tool in the hands of engine builders to enhance their modifications and get CONSISTENT results. You can't do that with OEM ignitions.

If you ban PI, then people with money will seek out hand picked OEM modules or package PI in OEM boxes.

Oscar Aguilera · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 1614

What is wrong with my Idea? Give me some feedback. "it sux" " it isn't my style" "it's too simple and we won't be able to complain as much"

2 motors, sealed, no opening of motors during event until tech, use at your discretion. I'll eloborate. You could use one igniton for both, and or carb/pipe. Only the Boot and reed cage bottom end, cylinder and head would be sealed similar to a Rotax type seal.

This is not a spec class and the rules are still open. The fastest kart would be the one to hold up through the entire event at the best possible set up.

Charlie Tackett

Well, here's my $.02 worth.

Aftre reading hundreds of posts regarding this topic on this and the TKWS and reading additional articles I could find searching the web, IMHO, the most effective means of contolling ignition costs and PI costs/influnce is to allow PIs, one curve ( driver cannot access control unit to change channels while seated in kart), with only the original wiring harness cnnections allowed.

While predictive non-sensor based mapping is possible, as is spark ionization direct from the sprk plug as a sensor is also possible its effectiveness in the real world seems limited as compared to the potential which would exist if additional inputs to the PI were allowed.

SO PI with non-changeable curves while kart in operation and may only couple to existing wiring harness.

John Neilson

Charlie, it sounds a lot to me like the current rules? mmmmmm....

[ August 06, 2001: Message edited by: John Neilson ]

bird · Joined: 17 Jul 2001 Posts: 147

quote:
What is wrong with my Idea? Give me some feedback. "it sux" " it isn't my style" "it's too simple and we won't be able to complain as much"

2 motors, sealed, no opening of motors during event until tech, use at your discretion. I'll eloborate. You could use one igniton for both, and or carb/pipe. Only the Boot and reed cage bottom end, cylinder and head would be sealed similar to a Rotax type seal.

This is not a spec class and the rules are still open. The fastest kart would be the one to hold up through the entire event at the best possible set up.

Oscar, that's the way national and international meetings are run in Europe except with three engines not two. Trouble is the tuners worked out a way of having the engines sealed so they could still get into them so the FIA changed international Formula A to two engines, no sealing because they just couldn't enforce it. Not sure if other classes have gone the same way yet.

Brant Williams

"If you ban PI, then people with money will seek out hand picked OEM modules or package PI in OEM boxes"

M. Mihld hit it on the head.

Either train the tech guys on how to use an oscilloscope, or leave PI's as legal...because there are guys who can package an OEM looking PI and no on would ever know. Maybe they can't re-program at the track...but who is to stop them from changing modules. Meanwhile the schmuck with the real Stock Ignitions is getting smoked.

You can't "un-invent" things. Once they are out there, and you have no reasonable way to tech them, you have to allow them. This is why F1 allowed traction control back in....they couldn't stop it.

Patrick Hubbell

quote:
Originally posted by Brandon Schroder:
I live i alberta canada and the local kart club here is thinking of banning the programable ignitions. I have also heard of many other organizations planning to bann them, like skusa and asn? What is everyones opinion on this??

I am sure you get about a 50/50 split from the readers of this forum. Half will say allow the PI and the other half will say no.

Advancements in technology should not be dicouraged in the case of the various manufactures that produce kart products. Inovation is what keeps things moving forward.

You don't have to buy these products and every club or organization has the authority to ban or allow these devices. My suggestion is creat different classes. I know what your thinking, that's all we need is another class. It wouldn't matter if added 3 more classes, there are to many already. So my point is you create the Spec 80cc class. All stock components, no porting with a cc rule and hard tires. Then a unlimited class: open motors,ignitions,control devices,data acquisition and soft tires. Take your pick.

Nothing that the powers to be in the sport of karting do is in my opinion actualy intended to save the racer money. The classic case being the YDS sagga. A set of these rocks will cost you between $140 and $160 for a set of 4. They are only good for 4 races then lap times begin to increase. Sure there is still a lot of rubber left but it is no good. It has been heat cycled to the point where it is bad rubber, remember the lap times! A better choice - to save the racer money - would be to use the Vega Green tires. They are good for 4 races and they only cost $110 per set. The chassis work better with softer rubber - that's why every one has to apply costly tire treatments to make the tire perform half way decently.

So, who is saving the racer money? THEY DON"T WANT TO SAVE YOU ANY MONEY, they want you to spend more. So have two classes "stock" and "open".

Darin Martinez-Stahl · Joined: 05 Aug 2001 Posts: 226 Location: Sacramento

Um, Pat is that not why they have Nor-cal limitied and Formula 80? Any ways if you think the Vega tire is so good , why not do the leg work put a thourough proposal together see what the availalbility is on the tire, can they meet 400 sets or more to meet Demand? see if they will match funds for year end awards. And record all of the data and submit it. Before the YDS tire this region could not even pull 80 karts, now look at it, You have been buying the wrong tire dope than if it is costly. Any ways lets keep this to the subject of PI....