Temp Street Circuits are the answer

Bill Talley · Joined: 07 Aug 2001 Posts: 74

I strongly feel that the only way that we are EVER going to get the Pro side of this sport off the ground is to attach to larger events. Maybe a few Supercross events, a few larger car races, maybe a large fair. These would all supply the base attendance that we lack. IT would give vendors a chance to sell product and allow more exposure than we have ever had.

Supercross for example. The facility has already been rented. Haybails are there, there is ample room no matter where it is held. There are thousands in attendance. Cameras are already there, TV crews are already there, local news is already there, the event has already been advertised.

I would not doubt that there is another reason that Pace or some other large organization has not latched on to us. We need a larger more mature sanctioning body to take the bull by the horns. Racing on these funkart tracks isn't what we need.

Eventually we need to all let the whole PI issue rest, stop adding classes and reducing events, stop letting sub standard drivers into pro classes (no exceptions). In the Pro shifter community, I don't care how many triads, or Duffy's someone has, 90% of the time they will get smoked at a promoto.

We are all so worried about all this trivial stuff and the real problem is that we have our Lemonade Stand set-up in the garage with the door closed. Great lemonade but who will ever know about it.

JMO

IKF = Club level

??? = Pro level

Classes are by engine size

Qualifying determines groups of 20 or 25 depending on track size.

We supply our own Tires

Saturday is practice

Sunday is qualifying and the race.

End of event.

Less pistons, less tires, less travel, more spectators, more exposure, etc. etc.

I truly believe this is the only way.

thanks

Bill Talley
SpeedLAb

John Barnum · Guest

I think the ventue of becoming a support race with CART has set the example. Here in Portland this year we had a tremdous show of karting racing. Well attended by race fans. Lots of people came by ands asked questions and from the heard responses, that karts were the talk of the weekend. ( Just Marc Miller) This is where the Pro racing should be developed. Those young drivers who are receiving funding with top of the line packages. This is where these drivers will be seen by sponsors, the stepping stone series and to CART/IRL teams. Sure karts on a mile oval is out of the questions but street courses and other road racing tracks offer Karters the best path to exposure. Kart exhibits in the paddock like at Portland opened many doors for spectators. After these people talked with the teams entered, I am sure, at least here in the Northwest, we will see a growth for karting.

Race formats can be made to help eliminate extra days at the track. Just like displayed last weekend here in Portland. TramsAM had only Friday with a couple sessions on track and then qualifying and warmup on Saturday morning then the race mid afternoon. Kart racing can be the same way. A professional team should not need days of practice to obtain a setup. Just think how go to a club race. A few sessions of practice and then qualifying and off we go racing.

Darren Swisher

Bill, JOhn, Both great points.

I would say stick with car racing, but the crowds that the moto events get are more the "Extreme" type, in which shifters are.

But here is another idea. Not only have the karter running at the same event but bring along an indoor karting type operation (a mobile version) and get them hooked straight off the bat.

Darren

Bill Talley · Joined: 07 Aug 2001 Posts: 74

Rob, I think you missed my point. What do you think would be more productive: Renting a huge stadium, advertising, etc, etc. OR Taging on to an already proven money maker, telling the promoters we need "X" sqare feet of parking lot and however many extra haybails and go from there. The promoter can charge us a fee and shave a little of his costs, in addition, for us there would be far more value there. What is easier, bringing in Fox Sports or having them do something while they were there already?

Skusa has done a great job of rasing the bar. So much so that other than the random super talent, unless you race Promoto shifters you haven't a chance. But the main things that are increasing are rules, issue, costs, etc. We are still playing in the dirt, it's just pretty, expensive dirt.

Last but not least, Rob, you have a great magazine but it has nothing to do with Shifter Racing at the level we have obtained.
I know this is a frustrating topic for most club guys but it doesn't pertain to the club level. Eventually it will help the lower forms of karting, just as Supercross has helped dirtbikes gain the popularity they have enjoyed.

I am very interested in helping someone manage doing something similiar to this but it would have to be a larger deal than what we are dealing with now. As I have said before, there are people in the shadows with alot of money just waiting to see what happens.

One day people will go

Until then we are just buying time and losing momentum and support in the process.

Thank

BDT
SpeedLab

Rob Hogenmiller

Bill,

It seems like everyone has a point including myself, but not many are willing to step up to the plate and answer the tough questions.

I don't believe I missed your point nor did I discredit the fact that there would be more resources readily available at a discounted cost. I had hoped you could expand on your points by addressing my questions Publicly so maybe someone could take your knowledge and use it in a way you feel would be beneficial.

Here were my questions. Pick one I'd sure be greatful that my typing didn't go to TOTAL waste.

How does drawing off their attendance base for kartings exposure gain, help it become a Pro Sport?

What's in it for them to have karting there?

Has anyone approached Pace?

Has there ever been a series that has drawn out this much talent in the past?

Who do you want to know about the Pro Sport of Karting? and If they did know about it how would things change?

I don't believe you responded to one of my questions. I'd certainly like to publicly discuss with you the possibilities, as it could help the sport. I've been to three ProMotos, as a competitor and as a observer. Raced the RIGP & Mfg cup in the top ShifterKart class. I was involved in Arenacross from it's growth into an International Pro Sport as a competitor. It closely resembles Shifterkarting's growth(potential). So I feel I can offer something.

I would tend to believe that someone that does have club level experience still could offer something of benefit in making it a true pro sport... So going to have to disagree with you there.

One of the greatest things in Racing I've learned is that a Pro can learn from the beginner where sometimes the beginner isn't able to learn from the Pro.

(Corrected Grammar-Edit)

[ August 07, 2001: Message edited by: Rob Hogenmiller ]

Dave Stevens

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Talley:
What is easier, bringing in Fox Sports or having them do something while they were there already?

Remote TV production doesn't quite work that way. While there may be some costs that are offset, if the karts are on a track different than the main event, there will costs associated with covering the event. Depending on the timing, there will most likely be duplicate camera setups at least. Even if the cameras are shared, the bulk of the labor is is in the cabling and setup, which will require duplication, if each event is on another track or in another physical location. Often the broadcast services are sub contracted, particularly for the smaller events. Fox, (or whom ever is broadcasting) is renting the trucks cameras and crews and providing the director, producers and other key staff.

In cases like in Portland at the CART race, they are using the same track, with the same camera positions, etc, most everything is in place and the associated costs of broadcasting the event are significantly reduced. Pretty much just labor, maybe not even that. Depending on who is doing the braodcast, there may be some organized labor work rules involved.

But the production logistics don't really address the real issue. Getting the event taped and "in the can" is probably the easiest part of the entire endevor. The rub is getting someone to air it.

CART does it like this.....

They buy the TV time from the network. They own all rights to the show and sell the commercial slots to the advertisers. Ever notice how many series sponsors have spots during the race? ;-)

I agree that national TV and tie ins to other events will help grow the sport. The catch is getting those on tape, and aired on a network and in a time slot where more than die hard karters or race fans will be exposed. Auto racing support series are a natural for this.

There is still a strong perception that karting is a kids only sport. When I told my colleagues that I was spending more than US$10k just to get started, they thought I was nuts. Once they are exposed to competitive karting, they still thought I was nuts, but this time for wanting to go 90 mph 4 inches off the ground with no seat belt and no body work to speak of. ;-)

The sport is getting there, just needs some work.

Dave

Bill Talley · Joined: 07 Aug 2001 Posts: 74

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Hogenmiller:
Bill,

How does drawing off their attendance base for kartings exposure gain, help it become a Pro Sport?

Answer: Perception is reality. By attending the event that has already a huge following, we could leapfrog into a similiar rank. Sponsors ask for exposure, by attending the same events, you get visual exposure, race trailers (if we ran every event) would follow the same highway paths that actually have a $$$ value etc. etc.

What's in it for them to have karting there?

The same thing that was in it for Supercross or Wrestling. Nothing...in the beginning. How is it that beach auto racing is now America's biggest sport?? We have to think big and outside of the box.

Has anyone approached Pace?

Talked with them earlier this year. They are waiting.

Has there ever been a series that has drawn out this much talent in the past?

No, I gave SKUSA credit for that.

Who do you want to know about the Pro Sport of Karting? and If they did know about it how would things change?

Who knows...? I want everyone to know.

Beginners cannot help us with this. They need to concentrate on getting the gear tight.

Hogenmiller ]

Drew Cleaver

quote:
Originally posted by John Denman:
Note there were 3 red flags in the 80jr race that halved the field of 16.

Since there were so many incidents, could this turn away potential racers? This was my first street race, is a lot of crashing normal on a street course?

Drew Cleaver www.vmaxracing.cjb.net

Rob Hogenmiller

By attaching to an event we could get more money for rolling-billboards that's for sure. That would help race teams cost. I would assume this would have to have a lot more than five events though which would raise the cost of racing. How many events could shops afford to goto right now though? It's only .02-.03 cents a view that a sponsor is going to pay.

Supercross and Wrestling got there without attaching themselves, so you can't offer those as examples.

Nascar got to where it was with time & hard work. It's been a long time since they have been on the beaches. SKUSA is still fairly new compared to all the organizations they are compared to.

We need to keep realistic expectations and build on them. Sure SKUSA has made some Major bone head calls this year, but the base of the program is pretty solid.

The sport has plenty to build on. I think people just are feeling kind of frustrated because things aren't happening fast enough for them, and SKUSA's "Mission" is non-compliant with there "Vision".

Mission-says they want to take it karting to the next level of professionalism.

Vision-says that they offer a ladder for every type of driver including the driver wanting to make it to Champ Car.

In a post sometime ago the karting community couldn't agree on what a Pro Sport was. Some said it was a Pro Sport if the shops were making money off sending a team to the event. Some said it was a Pro Sport if it was on TV. Some said it was a Pro Sport if the drivers were making a living doing it.

Look at this year compared to last year as on all the ground ShifterKarting has made.

We've been at CART race, a Nascar West race, televised Stars Of Tomorrow. $50,000 purse for the Stars Of Tomorrow. Another year of ProMoto racing. ProMoto race recorded. Would have been nice to see SKUSA more involved in these though.

I'm surprised at the lack of desire to do Road Racing when these would be held at the tracks that these young drivers might be racing at in the future in Formula cars.

When looking at series like the ProMoto it has the added challenge of it's customer age compared to traditional Pro Sports. This limits SKUSA selection of choices in certain areas, like marketing, advertising, and scheduling.

I think a thing that hurts karting is the unrealistic expecations of what karting can do and what karting can offer to teams, drivers, and investors.

Kartings seems to be growing into a Pro sport, hopefully we can capitalize on the assets we already have.

It will be interesting to see how Stars Of Tomorrow and SKUSA develop/grow in 2002.

Colin Fleming · Joined: 06 Aug 2001 Posts: 23 Location: North Hills, CA

I think the Supercross idea is a great one...i think the exposure and the levelof competition would defenitley be raised, besides isnt that how a Mr. Darren Elliott got hooked on karting?just think how many more of his kind are out there.

Colin

Jeff Welch

quote:
Originally posted by Drew Cleaver:

Since there were so many incidents, could this turn away potential racers? This was my first street race, is a lot of crashing normal on a street course?

I would agree that a lot of crashing would turn away many potential racers, but many spectators like to see crashes. Three red flag-incidents in a single class seems unusually high to me. I've only been to one street race also - Barrie - but as far as I know there was only three red flags the entire weekend; two in 80 Jr. and one in S1. There were plenty of other incidents that only warrented yellows, however. For most classes, I'd guess at an average of two to three incidents per race, so a little more than on a permanent track.

Jeff Welch
Weltek Racing Online

Terry Tilton · Joined: 20 Jul 2001 Posts: 58 Location: Austin, Tx

I was at the race in Austin, where I live. I didnt race but the 3 red flags were caused more by the track design than anything else. They put in a chicane made of haybales at the end of a long straight (400 ft) before a hairpin. Should have let it go all the way and had a huge breaking zone. Anyway, I think the correct way to get it in front of people is like what they did at Laguna Seca (I was there too), at Portland, etc. Unfortunately, a 125 kart is going to look slow on such a big track. I think the future for "pro level" kart racing will be the 250 superkarts. The big tracks just have too long of straights for a 125 and its just going to look less impressive than a 250, even if the lap times arent that much different. How does this benefit karting? We begin to build on the awesome spectacle of karts racing on the same tracks as Nascar, Cart, transam, etc., and pretty soon a kart race will be able to host its own race, if it can draw.

John Denman

quote:
Originally posted by Drew Cleaver:

Since there were so many incidents, could this turn away potential racers? This was my first street race, is a lot of crashing normal on a street course?

Drew Cleaver

Thats possible, but I think the 80Jrs tend to be a little too brave. There was a comment Bill made stop letting sub standard drivers into pro classes (no exceptions) and I would extend this to all shifter classes.

Drew, did you find Austin a any more exciting then the other 3 races?

John Denman

quote:
Originally posted by Terry Tilton:
I didnt race but the 3 red flags were caused more by the track design than anything else.

I am tellin you officer, that tree just jumped right out in front of me!

My son hit one haybale the whole weekend. That was when someone else hit it first and launched it airborn. Good thing my son has his dad's hard head.

The chicane was not a problem, nor the actual cause of any incedents. A good driver anticipates if the turn is theirs or backs off if in question. When there is no room to dunk a wheel off the track, its not worth the risk to play chicken. I made passes, was passed, and watched people crash coming up to it.

Two flags were caused by poor driving, and one flag was caused by an accidental display of the yellow flag to the leading 2 karts.

Brad Fultz · Joined: 23 Jul 2001 Posts: 26 Location: Knoxville TN

I have seen a race during a street festival the friday before the Nascar race in Bristol huge crowd only problem all stock briggs clases not exciting, but shifters would be perfect. An idea would be to try and get all the skusa, promoto, etc to have a working schedule and pick a couple open dates for street races per region north south east etc and just make it happen. The long track nats this weekend will generate 40,000.00 dollars if you have 40 per class (5) @ 200.00 less fuel expenses pluse add in a couple o' bucks for vendors to sale beer food tires etc and of course K&K has to get there share. Heck I think a good promoter could make a little coin if they ran a good program, and if you have a problem with the city officials pick a philanthropy throw them a litte coin and you get some free help do some good, make some money, and best of all race more....