Starting karting: shifter vs. non-shifter

[Paul Carey]

My buddy and I took Terry Ives' class and fell in love with the sport. We each used to ride motorcycles (canyon racers) and understand the dynamics of going fast. I've been told to start in a non-shifter kart and not a shifter so I can develop my driving skills before going faster. My friend questions whether we're not wasting money starting out there and asks whether we should get a shifter to start (which is what we expect to drive eventually). We plan on more weekend, non-racing driving for the first few months before we try to enter any races, and then it will probably be club level racing only. (We also have kids and can't commit tons of time to the sport.) We don't want to be disappointed with our purchase; ie, if we go non-shifter, we don't want to feel the need to replace it quickly with a shifter, and if we go shifter to start, we don't want to be in over our heads and not be competitive when we do start racing. QUESTION: What do people who race shifters think about what to get when starting out in these circumstances?

All feedback is welcome and appreciated.

Paul Carey

[Doug Welch]

I don't think I will get much argument that a racer who comes from the clutch karts will be smoother (faster) than a racer who does not have clutch kart experience. So from that stand point, you would be be better off starting with a clutch kart.

Now, having said that, you need to ask yourself more questions. Where do you want to race? By that I mean, in the front or in the back. The farther forward you want to race, the more commitment you will need in both time and money. This holds true for both clutch and shifter karts but you can run up front in a clutch kart for less money than you can run up front in a shifter.

I clearly understand the need for speed. NOTHING comes close to a 125 shifter for thrill. But remember, it can be a brutal machine and you do need to drive it often to drive it quickly.

An alternative is to get an 80 shifter. Less power and braking, it is not quite a brutal as a 125 but nearly as quick. They cost much less to maintaine and operate compared to a 125. They also require the driver to be very smooth in order to drive it quickly.

I too can not stress enough that you find the local dealers and work with them. As a new racer, you need tons fo help and assistance. Since the local dealer makes his/her/its living off you, they have a real incentive to help.

Doug

[Steve Moore]

Get an 80 shifter, join a local track(Dixon, Davis), put YDS tires on, and go out and practice every chance you get. There are lots of people locally with 80s, running at every level of competition, who will be glad to help you get going, and there will be someone at the track every time you go out.
Conventional wisdom says start with clutch karts, but you will quickly grow bored with those, and maintenance on a clutch kart will eat you alive. 80s are cheap to keep, fun to drive, and YDS tires don't wear out, they just get hard(er).JMO

[Chris Sigua]

Yes, I would recommend the 80 shifter especially since you're here in No. California. There are alot more 80's than 125s. And since you guys desire to race at the club level, then that would be the best since there is alot more support for that class.

[ July 30, 2001: Message edited by: Chris Sigua ]

[John Bosanek]

Hi Paul, I was glad to meet you at the track Sunday. After thinking about it on my drive home, I thought about what I had told you.....(don't start in a shifter), but then I got to thinking....if you're just going out to have a good time now and then, and don't care to work on things too much, get an 80. Just make sure you get plenty of practice in before you race. For the prices we were discussing at the track for karts you were looking at, you should have little trouble getting into a used 80. Clutch karts are fun too, but you will find yourself "messing with it" a lot more.

Food for thought

John

[John Van Nghiem]

I aggree with steve. get an 80/yds kart. low maintenance, cheap and fast compared to clutch karts. not to mention the clutch karts are a pain in the *** to start and maintain!

Just get as much seat time as you can and you'll be fine.

John

[Chad Stapleton]

Paul,
make your own mind up after testing as many as you can, BUT - be sure to try the Rotax Max before you decide. From the above posts its obvious that many people dont know this kart , the comments about speed, starting, clutch set up, maintenance etc, just dont apply !!.

[John Neilson]

Paul,
as someone with a few years of experience, my opinion is to run a clutch kart 1 or 2 years. There is too much to learn about setup,gearing,etc. The 80cc kart is even harder to setup than the 125 because you have less than 50% of the braking. I could go on here, but try the clutch or RotaxMax.
You might stick around a little longer.
By the way, in our club, the 80ccJrs are about .4 faster than the 125's.

[Bill Kassy]

I would strongly recommend that you run the clutch karts or at least direct drive for 1-2 years before you try a shifter.

There is a ton to learn about karting, and if you start with something that has a lot of hp you can (in your mind) hide lots of driving mistakes.

One of the advantages of clutch karts or direct drive is that you have to learn how to carry speed through corners! With a shifter, if you bog the motor down, you just drop a gear and off you go. It will feel fast, but when you are competing with people in shifters, and they don't make that mistake, you lose speed and you don't know why. So you will go complaining to your motor builder or you will throw $$ at a new chassis, when the problem is the "nut" behind the wheel.

Again, there is so much to learn about karting, including the chassis set-up, that you don't want to worry about the details of a 125 right off the bat. More importantly, a small mistake in a 125 at speed can seriously damage yourself as well as your checkbook!

My advice, for what it is worth, - go to the local track. Look at what classes have the biggest fields, generally a can or spec class, find a 1-2 yr old used deal that is supported by the "local" kart shop and go race for awhile and see what happens. If you still have the bug, especially after you realize the amount of time that is required to maintain everything and go racing, then buy a shifter "if that is what you really want to do" from your local guy and go race!

I have had some of my most fun on kart track, in a low powered can kart competing against great drivers. You really have to work hard to make a pass and more importantly you can't make any mistakes.

For me personally, I took a 5 day driving school in 1989 and wanted to go race FF. After looking at my budget, or lack of, I went karting. Started Enduro karting in 1989, bought my first new kart in 1993, started sprint racing in clutch yammas, in 1995, DD yamaha in 1997, and bought my first shifter in 1999. I still enjoy all three different types of racing - enduro with a Euro motor, Sprinting with a KT100, and Shifter kart racing.

All three of them provide different thrills, and more importantly all three require different skills to be fast. By doing all three, it helps you out in all types of racing.

Whatever you chose, remember to have fun!

[John August]

Look around for a driving that offers the chance to try both types, the just go with whichever one you like the best. Maybe more inportant than "what kind of kart" would be attending a kart driving school-this would shorten the learning curve greatly.

[John Bosanek]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chad Stapleton:
Paul,
make your own mind up after testing as many as you can, BUT - be sure to try the Rotax Max before you decide. From the above posts its obvious that many people dont know this kart , the comments about speed, starting, clutch set up, maintenance etc, just dont apply !!.

---

Ummm...not so. I've driven a max (and I know that at least one other that has made the statement to start in an 80 has driven one). They are fast, low maitainance, and have a great starting feature, but as far as I can tell, in Nor Cal (other than the recent NCK races) you are very likely to be the only guy at the track with one. It's lots more fun to race against lots of people than 1 other guy or being "stuck in with" another class.

FWIW

John

[David Bilman]

When I was contemplating this very same decision, after having driven both clutch karts and shifters at the Jim Hall school, I went with the seat of the pants exhiliration of the shifter.

As I became better acquainted with the karting experience/learning curve, I realized that maybe some non-shifter experience would have done a lot of good. Though driving a JM built Honda 125 (used) was thrilling, it was such a handful that improving my driving skills was slow and difficult. Also, because it was a bit much to handle (I'd be totally winded after every heat race), I couldn't get the set-up sorted out for quite a while.

If I had it to do over, I'd recommend a clutch kart or maybe an 80cc shifter to get started. However, when I realized this, I also realized that I was too stubborn/addicted to go back. My $0.02.