Yamaha power vs Honda

Tony Gaylord · Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2001 4:58 pm Post subject: Yamaha power vs Honda

Just wondering here but with the majority of engine packages consisting of Honda & TM, why aren't there more Yami's out there? Are there builders that are making strong Yamaha packages? That also leads me to Kawi, I rarely see them in stats etc.etc..... Are these two engines just not making the power that Honda/TM make?

Always wondered-
*TG*

Mark Dismore Jr · Advertiser Joined: 21 Jul 2001 Posts: 1096

TM - Good Power, Parts are hard to get...

Kawasaki - Just haven't taken off, I don't know why, especially with the run that Carmichael has had...

Honda - Makes good power, parts are available everywhere...

Yamaha - Faster than a Honda stock, but looses out after blueprinting, parts are available everywhere...

Suzuki - Gotta by the damn bike and take the motor!

That's the info I have, though I could have missed a thing or two.

Mark

Tony Gaylord · Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2001 5:32 pm Post subject: Yamaha power vs Honda

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dismore Jr:
TM - Good Power, Parts are hard to get...

Kawasaki - Just haven't taken off, I don't know why, especially with the run that Carmichael has had...

Honda - Makes good power, parts are available everywhere...

Yamaha - Faster than a Honda stock, but looses out after blueprinting, parts are available everywhere...

Suzuki - Gotta by the damn bike and take the motor!

That's the info I have, though I could have missed a thing or two.

Mark

And that's what kinda baffles me....
Yes Charmicall has a good year, it was just a matter of time, I dont think its the package, its the matured rider. You can't tell me that this years Kawi has smoked (in raw HP) Jeremy's Honda dominance. But speaking of Kawi's in MX and karting, is it the sustained high RPM's where the Kawi doesnt put out the power? Because in my opinion, most engines (speaking of MX) can produce close to the smae amount of power. So why not in karting? The loads are different so to speak, and so are the power bands and most importantly the sustained high RPM's, so does it come down to a matter of reliability?

*TG*

Tim Blaney · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 1127

I am not convninced the Honda parts are all that much easier to get than TM parts. Before I left for Portland, I had a list of bits I needed for my Honda, none of them carried by the local Honda shop. It's not like I needed RS pistons, I have an 80 and they had nothing I needed.

I was able to get some through Todd B. at HOnda of Troy, the rest I got from Shark Shifter in Portland.

Erik Frank · Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2001 8:53 pm Post subject: Yamaha power vs Honda

quote
Quote:

(snip) I think with some R&D any of the other brands will work just as good as a Honda.[/QB]

Indeed. Take a look at Yamaha.

Jeff Morningstar · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 2:43 am Post subject: Yamaha power vs Honda

Honda vs. Yamaha ? Honda has it all over the yamaha.. It because of the power band. Honda is so easy to power thru and the yamamha is a lot to work with. I have had both and I would never give up my Honda....... =jeff=

Steven Tippett · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 3:41 am Post subject: Yamaha power vs Honda

I drove a 97 Suzuki for 2 seasons. Maybe it was just my motor, but the thing had a wicked bottom end and mid range, but absolutely got killed at the top end. At local tight track, the thing was competitive, but then again you weren't full throttle for more than a second on this track. At the bigger tracks it would lose on the straightaway anywhere from 5 kart lengths to 10 even!!! (I'm not kidding) I don't know much about motoX racing but my logic would say a good motoX engine would want good bottom end and mid range but not as much top, where as in karting it still important to have good bottom and mid, but it is crucial (especially on the big tracks) to have top end. I switched to TM at the beginning of the year and it is a very noticable difference.

Rob Linders · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 725

Tony said:

Yes Charmicall has a good year, it was just a matter of time, I dont think its the package, its the matured rider. You can't tell me that this years Kawi has smoked (in raw HP) Jeremy's Honda dominance.

Hi Tony,

Jeremy hasn't ridden Honda's for years. I think he switched in about 97 or 98 to Suzuki and then has been on Yamaha for the past few years. Even Jeremy couldn't win on a Suzuki and he lost the title that year to Emig.

Mark Schmidt · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 5:59 am Post subject: Yamaha power vs Honda

i run a suziki and love the motors. Just my 2-cents

Ronnie Swyers · Joined: 23 Jul 2001 Posts: 95

I think it's hard to compare the Motorcross racing to Kart racing. The engines are built to do two totally different things (it seems). I believe the bikes aim for peak RPM about the time we (kart racers) want to see it come on. I'm no engine builder, but it's just the comments I've heard over the past few years. How about hearing from John Gore in Florida...I think he's put a few yamaha's together that have rocked! Where are you John!

Ronnie Swyers www.RSwyers.com

Jeff Carelli · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 7:05 am Post subject: Yamaha power vs Honda

I think the Honda ( and to a lesser degree the Yamaha ) were concentrated on by engine builders because of the existence of their roadrace cousins the RS and TZ. A blueprint, so to speak, already existed for how to make these motors perform under karting type conditions & this aided in the costly and time consuming R&D process.

Gary Kozuma1 · Joined: 26 Jul 2001 Posts: 386

quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Carelli:
I think the Honda ( and to a lesser degree the Yamaha ) were concentrated on by engine builders because of the existence of their roadrace cousins the RS and TZ. A blueprint, so to speak, already existed for how to make these motors perform under karting type conditions & this aided in the costly and time consuming R&D process.

Huh?

Anyway the first reason is what Tony said. Honda was first in agreeing to sell the motor in a kit form. Paul leary and others then did his magic and the motor dominated the "moto" class. Over time, the moto format was a much better option because the formula 125 motor was too expensive to purchase, and you had to know someone or be someone.

Later, Yamaha and Kawasaki created programs as well. So I remember about 1998, Kawasaki had a huge program with SSC and CRG and sold a gazillion motors. Funny thing is I can't remember the last time I saw one.

Anyway, It's really hard to beat the Honda. There are so many motors, builders, parts suppliers, etc. That could all change within a year though, as I understand Reine has a Yamaha program. Even then, what's the point? Buy a Honda, they support the Moto karting community better that any other japaneese product.

Gary K.

Greg Maxwell · Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2001 4:23 pm Post subject: Yamaha power vs Honda

I have run Yamaha, TM and Honda. While some guys have luck making the Yammy go fast, most spend there weekend fixing stuck cylinders (just an observation :eek

As for TM MX it's an excellent shifter kart engine for the first season. After all it's brother is the Formula C engine. The problem with TM is the production numbers are so low quality suffers (castings, tolerences, etc.). My TM's allways ran like a bat-out-of-hell untill you had to split the case for a crank or tranny work. Then it seemed to be down hill from there. Now Honda,the production numbers are so high and the tolerences are so precise that the cases aren't even matched (in the some assembly required 6-speed engine kit

)I even get more mileage out of the pistions with Honda. I have never run a Kaw. but friends that run them seem to put pistons in every 45 min. worth of running. Just my 2 cents, for whatever that's worth to ya, Greg