Costs

[Jeff Welch]

If a team decides not to race because they cannot win they championship this year, how are they going to wina championship the following year? Even is you can't win, can't you gain knowledge and experience by going to the event anyway? Obviosly, Trackmagic has a great deal of experience, but they are missing something. By racing with Speed, they have an opportunity to find out what it is. Why give up? I learn something new every time I go to a PMT, I expect that it will continue to be the same. As a result, I do every event I can and still keep up with work and school. By skipping an event, you are skipping the chance to get faster.

Jeff Welch
Weltek Racing

[Bonnier Moulton]

LOL, I like the way you guys pick one sentence and run with it. If you read carefully I said "from a marketing standpoint, second is worth nothing". At no time did I say that any team was skipping events because they couldn't win the championship.

I'm not affiliated in any way, shape or form with Trackmagic so I can't speak for them and wouldn't presume. I have spoken to people within the team and the reasons they give and the complaints they have are a far cry from what you continue to attribute to them.

FWIW, Trackmagic is at Pat's Acres for the PMT as we speak. Where are you?

Back to the issue of costs...
I just got off the phone with the guy that we sponsor...

He just wrote a check for his entry, 1 pit pass and 5 gallons of fuel. The total? $720.00
Add to that a pit spot at $75 and you're at $795.00 before you hit the track. Make of it what you will, but for some people that's a pretty big pill to swallow.

Bonnier
Msquared Karting www.msquaredkarting.com

[Erik Frank]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bonnier Moulton:
[QB]
(snip)
Back to the issue of costs...
I just got off the phone with the guy that we sponsor...

He just wrote a check for his entry, 1 pit pass and 5 gallons of fuel. The total? $720.00
Add to that a pit spot at $75 and you're at $795.00 before you hit the track. Make of it what you will, but for some people that's a pretty big pill to swallow.

Bonnier
QB]

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Egads...I hope that $720.00 also included some tires....

-erik

[Bonnier Moulton]

quote:

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Originally posted by Erik Frank:
Egads...I hope that $720.00 also included some tires....

-erik

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Yeah, that includes 2 sets I believe. Makes it almost bearable.

[Stephen Buckley]

2 set of YGC's costs $300
5 gallons racegas $25
Pit pass $10

Ummmm...ummmm... $795 minus $335 = a bunch of profit for someone!!

Let me see... my racing weekend...
Race fees $40
1 set of YGC's(if I don't use used tires)$150
4 gallons pump gas $6
Pit pass $2

Ummmmm...ummmmm... that's $198

hmmmmmmmm....................

[ July 19, 2001: Message edited by: Stephen Buckley ]

[Doug Welch]

At the prices some charge, he got about $350 worth of goodies. For us support classes, its $525 if we register in advance (they charge more at the door) which includes the tires and fuel. So the net cost is around $175. Pit spots are an additional charge but if you are part of a large team, those costs are shared.

The way we do it, we are part of a team and we split costs for transportstion. The team provides pit spots and tent and we pay our own bills. They have complete spares, including new karts and we pay for any parts we use.

We are not at Canbey because we are out of money and since we declared inthe east, we don't count in the standings. We wish we could come 'cause that little track kicked our butts last year and we want another crack at it.

Just remember, two people never see the same thing at the same time. We all interperate what we see and hear from our own selfish point of view. I remember once being told the definition of common sense, a person who has common sense is a person who would do something just like you would.

Doug

[Mark Schmidt]

I know this young man that would be a top runner in the ProMoto, I would love to get him n the 80cc junior next season. I sit down and ran the figures with his parents - between the two of us we could not get the dollars rasied to do it. So now the option will be to get him into the regional and hope that a SKUSA regional get enough press to be worth the time. As the costs go up the participation will decrease that is the nature of the beast. Once the organization realize so cost control needs to be done then they will make that move. It took into the 70's for Formula one to do it, It was 70 when CART came into being because of USAC so eventually it will happen here.

The real advantage SKUSA has is the mistakes of the others that came before them. All they have to do is find those things that they can apply and use them.

What I feel all Karting groups have failed to realize as there has been a new life breathed into the sport is thsat it is the middle and back pack guys that pay more of the bills than the podium racers. That they have to make it attractive for those guys to continue in the sport or they will end up with the top three plus a couple others and that is it.

Just my two cents worth.

[PWeeks]

quote:

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Originally posted by Darren Swisher:
cost of racing a shifter kat $25,000

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I think you might be a little under on your estimate of what the front running teams are spending at the National Level. I heard of a promininent driver/team spending closer to the 100k mark last year competing on the Pro-Moto Tour. Our own budget was above your figure posted.

[PWeeks]

quote:

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Originally posted by Stephen Buckley:
5 gallons racegas $25
Pit pass $10
[ July 19, 2001: Message edited by: Stephen Buckley ]

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Well VP C12 runs around $7.00 a gallon at the Pro-Moto Stops, and the pit passes aren't $10.00 either.

[Glenn Holland]

Mark, you bring up an interesting side point in this discussion, which is "press" or "exposure".

Figuring someone will come out and say we didn't post their story, I will make this statement anyway: it continually amazes me how hard it is for us to get karters (from individuals to teams to clubs to regional to national organizations) to get their PR act together and send us stuff. There are a handful of people who do a bang-up job, and that's who you usually see more of. Some interpret that as favoritism on our part, but if anyone knows Jeff Franz, that simply isn't an issue.

With my theme of the year being "a rising tide floats all boats", I'd sure like to see the members of the karting fraternity get our collective act together in this area - it only means more attention, more money, more participation.

Okay, I'm done with the soapbox, anyone want to take a turn?

G.

[Oscar Aguilera]

I like how most racers do the math on the entry fees. The point is math and not business calculations. Most math type racers figure the cost of the items and then subtract it from the fee and call it profit.

LOL!!

Nobody's time is free. You have an ambulance, the labor of running the event even if Murley works for free.(which he probably does) Thsi is not "Club Racing"(remember no podium, champagne, or sometimes no trophies)

If you do away with all the extras as someone is bound to think by now, who is going to travel for the same lack luster club event with the cost of travel being 60% of the tour. I hear of the 100k budgets and I know alot of that was added "cush" trips. Eating at outback instead of McD's. Staying the extra day to pack up Monday am.

I can't wait for the day that an Alex Speed type shows up with a pickup and all his things for racing in it. He and his Mechanic go to work at the track and head home afterwards. It can be done but why? With all the money that emits odor from every pit out there Why?

The money bar is elevated because someone can afford to test more than you. How about the team that stays after the race to test for an extra day or two even if you empliment rules that govern testing before a race.

In defense of Rotax Max.
It will out do the said past motors for 2 reasons. #1.The motors are built to a higher quality with water cooling, nikasil, and overall it is a better manufactured motor. #2 The motors are 125's and not 100cc's, they pull the wieght better. The clutch is better thatn the worthless clutchs that HPV or Kt100s use.

[Bonnier Moulton]

quote:

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Originally posted by Oscar Aguilera:
I like how most racers do the math on the entry fees. The point is math and not business calculations. Most math type racers figure the cost of the items and then subtract it from the fee and call it profit.

LOL!!

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And they would be right. It's called gross profit. After you deduct the costs of the items you mentioned it becomes net profit.

Bonnier
Msquared Karting www.msquaredkarting.com

[Rob Hogenmiller]

Sure I'll jump in.

I don't think the ProMoto is very expensive to run at all (From A Privateer's View). It's the days missed from work that kills your pocket book. That's where we need to look at cost. Comparison below.

Here is a Nearly Minimum Cost Comparison
Leave on Saturday Morning/Return On Sunday Evening for Regional race.

Cost:

Closest Regional 3.5 hours away.
$80 dollars gas.
$50 motel
$17.50 Race Gas
$3.50 Premix
$40 Top End(Change Every Three Weekends)
$240 Tires (Run About A Set and Half a Weekend)
$60 entry
$20 Pit Passes(One for myself & One for Friend/Dad)
$0 Food you got to eat that no matter what.
$3.00 Oil

$514 dollars-To run a regional. 2 days of Seat Time
$257 per day to run my closest regional.

To run a ProMoto-
Leave On Tuesday Noon Return on Monday Evening.

Furthest One Away 23 hours
$526 Gas
$200 Hotel
$35.00 Race Gas
$90.00 Top End
$7.50 Premix
$240 Tires (Go through about a set in a half the two days of practice)
$525 Entry Fee
$60 Pit Pass For Mechanic & Friend (Forget if that is the right price)
$60 Food For Mechanic- 3 days.
$0 Food Got to eat anyway.
$100 Pit Space
$7.50 Oil

$1851.00 To Run Promoto
$1851.00/5 days seat time.
$370.20 a day.

I picked the closest Regional and the furthest Promoto to show that there really isn't much difference.

It's $113.2 more a day to run the ProMoto than running a regional. It is a whole different experience and invaluable learning.

The kicker is when you throw in the days missed from work.

Adjust for your pay scale.

We would leave Tuesday at Noon, so thats 4hours on Tuesday and 8 hours missed the following days; Wed, Thurs, Fri and Mon.

Total of 36 hours missed.

If you make $20 an hour adds another $720 to the total.

$2571.00/5 days of seat time.
$514.20 a day.

It cost 44% more to run the ProMoto than a Regional. (38 % Due To Vehicle Gas).

With lost wages in there it cost 100% more or (Double if that is easier) to race ProMoto over a regional, varying on your hourly income.

If you own your own business you also have to figure in that you lost future business while you where gone.

I really feel these areas are the ones that needs to be addressed when speaking of cost;

How to cut cost on the gas.
(Maybe a networking sytem or central shipping distrubtion Area through FedEx or trucking company)

How to decreased lost wages from work.
(Scheduling and Testing Limitations seem to come to mind off hand)

The series itself is not much more expensive to run than your every day regional race. It's the lost wages and transportation of equipment that gets expensive.

Something to think about anyway.

Rob Hogenmiller
rob@nationalkarting.com
www.nationalkarting.com
www.robhogenmiller.com

(Added this part from a Privateer's point of view.

One thing that hurts myself as a privateer is the punch system. I can't afford to do three regionals and the ProMoto. I could afford to do all my Regionals or the ProMoto, but I can't do both. I made a BIG BLUNDER at the beginning of the year. Didn't fully understand how that punched system worked. Once I did, I realized it was pointless for me to continue to do the ProMoto because I couldn't afford to do the Regionals to get me in for the World Finals.)

I hope they ditch that in the future from the Privateers stand point.

I progress on.----Rob

[ July 24, 2001: Message edited by: Rob Hogenmiller ]

[Erik Frank]

Hey Rob,


Nice stuff, except that you've omitted a few key costs:

2001 F-250 Lariat Powerstroke Turbo Diesel: $34,000
Haulmark 16x8 Enclosed race trailer $3,500 (bare)


It's not so cheap anymore....

[Dave Stevens]

quote:

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Originally posted by Stephen Buckley:

Ummmm...ummmm... $795 minus $335 = a bunch of profit for someone!!

Let me see... my racing weekend...

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The main difference Stephen is that you aren't racing at the pro level, in what is the "big leagues" karting. Compared to the other expenses involved, a US$800 entry fee is one of the lesser expenses. Track time alone at Pat's for four days with membership is a couple hundred dollars. This is a pro event, not a club race.

I was at the PMT at Pat's last weekend, and I'd have to say that from what I saw, Msquared has one of the more sensible approaches to cost containment. They had a small trailer, small staff, not a lot of frills, no RV, yet Mathis ran consistently mid pack, bettering many of the teams that appeared much better funded. It's not necessarily how much money one spends, but how they spend the money they have.

Dave