Helmets

[Drew Cleaver]

Another thing to think about using a motorcycle helmet, especially the nice ones for road racing, is that where the helmet meets your neck it's at a steeper angle than a auto helmet due to having to tuck under that windshield. So in theory it wouldn't be too flush with your neck brace.

Drew Cleaver www.vmaxracing.cjb.net

[Charlie Tackett]

Well, Larry, this is one area where price does not necessarily mean anything. I currently wear a Bell helmet that was about $175. I think Ted's was around $200, it's an Arai, I believe. Of course, that's with our discount.

Whether you are talking a $150 or a $600 doallar helmet, as long it is is a Snell rated/approved helmet, they have both met the exact same level of safety requirements. There is no proof or gaurenteee that teh $600 helmet is going to provide any higher level of protection that the cheaper helmet, so long as they are both Snell helmets. A Snell rating is a Snell rating and that's that, period, has nothing whatsoever to do with the cost of the helemt, only its ability to meet certain safety requirements.

A higher priced helemt, may or *may not* posses impact standards that far exceed Snell levels, there is no testing for maximal levels. Higher priced helmets may have a better level of finish to them, may have a more convenient shield mechanism, may be made of ligher materials, may have better final fit and thus such things as better ventilation, better sound deadening, etc, they do not, however, necessarily meet a higher level of safety than does a $150 Snell rated helmet!! Plus you are often going to be pying more for the name and their advertising, too!

Read my old safety article or read the descriptions on the Snell site. Your comments about type of impact, ie, contained in a vehicle, etc, are in both of those. Yet the test which are performed on teh helmets to achieve either rating are absolutely identical. There are some helmets that other than the nomex liner, are absolutely identical whether they are M, or SA rated. There is nothing that prohibits an SA from having a wider eyeport, only that an M must have it. THere is nothing that prohibits an M from having the thicker faceshield, only that the SA must have it. So some manufactuerers have mad just on single helmet design that meets both standards and only have to add the nomex liner tpo get the SA rating instead of building to entirely seperate helmets.

I think we would be doing a disservice to a racer in the market for a new helmet if we led him to believe he had to have a $600 helmet for safety. He may very well put it off due to that cost, while he could afford a $200 new Snell rated helmet that would indeed over the same level of proven safety.

[ July 26, 2001: Message edited by: Charlie Tackett ]

[Erik Frank]

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Ferguson:
The Bandit (Darth Vader) was originally manufactured as a drag helmet, and is still very popular in that arena (along with it's variations). The Signet comes from a long background in M/C roadracing, and has design features that are meant to keep it quiet and I would consider it a very nice helmet. I have to disagree with Mr. Tackett. I personally would never put a $150 helmet on my head (or Randolph's), althoughI do agree that the fit is a most important area. As far as the view-port, on a bike as opposed to being in a race car (where your head should be restrained) you need all of the perephrial vision you can find, which is why you will see this designed into a M/C helmet.
Plus, as I said ealier, regardless of what some people think, a GP helmet is designed to take high impact on asphalt. There is more to the helmet that just the shell. Either way, get yourself the best that you can.
Larry

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According to Simpson's literature, the Bandit was developed in the Mid-1970's for Indycars. come to think of it, teh aerodynmics of that helmet kind of parallels mid-1970's indy car aerodynamics.


I agree with Charlie. As long as both helmets are certified to the same standard, price has little to do with safety. If you have a $700 lid and a $200 lid, and if they are both SA 2000 certified, then they will both offer the same level of protection, to within the Snell certification standard. Otherwise, this standard would be meaningless. The real difference between the two is in the details. In many cases you pay quite a bit for just for a fancy paint job (or a goofy visor hinge mechanism).

[Jon Betts]

Go for one of the Bell Kart series helmets they are all K98, my kid loves his Kart Sport, it has the spoiler at the bottom front which really stops his head from being buffeted by the wind. Got a great deal from http://www.onoffroad.com/bellAuto.html

JB

[Larry Ferguson]

OK guys remember, I just got out of the hospital after a week in intensive care. Let me atleast get my vision adjusted before the ratpack comes! You are correct about the Bandit being used originally for Indy cars. Old man Simpson even lit himself on fire with one. I should have said that they became primarily a drag helmet. The Vicodin was in charge, sorry. As for the rest of the debate, it will continue. But as I also said, in any case, get the best that you can. Maybe someone can correct me (which I am sure will happen!), but I think that it was Bell who actually came up with the $100 head/helmet phrase. Sorry, I stick to my guns here, you get what you pay for!

[Charles Frear]

Dear Scott,
As a seat maker I have had a chance to work with various materials. The choices being fiberglass, carbon and kevlar. I have tested the strength, weight and fracture characteristics of each. You will only find kevlar protecting this coconut.
I chose the Bell M3, it has chin vents, closeable forehead vents and anti lift vents at the top. It goes for about $400. Why do you think they make bullet proof vest out of kevlar. I hope you will never need the level of protection it is capable of.
Feel the speed not the pain!
Charles Frear DeepSeat Inc.

[John Barrett]

I recently purchased a Bell M3 for my 11 year old son. He loves it and we feel confident that it offers the protection that he deserves. The people at Bell Motorsports in Oakland were great.www.bellmotorsports.com

John

[Tim Doll]

quote:

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Originally posted by Charlie Tackett:
Where's Tim Doll?? He has a canned post as this question comes up repeatedly over the years.

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Charlie - I was at the IKF Road Race GN, you should have remembered that . And I see on the Road Race forum people are gripping about a lack of news from the RR Grands too. Can't a guy spend five days doing nothing but racing .

Anyway, here is my canned response - it should answer most of the questions...

Helmet ratings are very commonly misunderstood. The Snell M-95 and M-2000 ratings are for 'motorcycles', Snell SA-95 and SA-2000 are "special applications", specifically motorsports. However, the standards are not that much different. The primary differences between the Snell 95 and Snell 2000 standards have to do with how the helmet tests are conducted, not in the pass/fail criteria. Further, the Snell M-95/M-2000 and SA-95/SA-2000 standards are nearly identical, but with the following exceptions:
SA-95/SA-2000 has a fire-resistant requirement, M-95/M-2000 makes no reference to fire resistance.
SA-95/SA-2000 has a roll bar impact requirement that is not included in M-95/M-2000. All other impact and penetration requirements are IDENTICAL between SA-95/SA-2000 and M-95/M-2000, including the number of impacts.
SA-95/SA-2000 allow a slightly more restricted view area (~10%) than M-95/M-2000, but both allow exceptions to the view area requirement provided appropriate warning labels are used indicating the helmet may be unsuitable for some applications. Incidentally, while a narrower eye port may make a helmet unsuitable for street use, at least around here there are no laws that it would violate.
SA-95/SA-2000 require a positive face shield retention that is not part of M-95/M-2000. SA-95/SA-2000 and M-95/M-2000 require the same test for face shield penetration, however the pass/fail criteria are more restrictive for SA-95/SA-2000. M-95/M-2000 say the projectile can not penetrate, SA-95/SA-2000 say it can make an indentation no more than so deep in the shield. In practice, a 0.050" face shield will pass M-95/M-2000, 0.125" will pass SA-95/SA-2000.
The KA-98 standard is identical to the SA-95 but with the flammability requirements deleted.
OK, now that you know the difference, what's the significance?
In my opinion, for karting the one significant difference M-95/M-2000 vs. SA-95/SA-2000 is the (thicker) face shield and positive retention. In 20 years of road race karting (top speeds well over 100 mph), I've never seen or heard of anything making it through a face shield. However I've seen several occasions where a thin (.050") motorcycle type face shield was ripped completely off in an accident, and on at least two occasions significant facial injuries resulted.
As far as getting a Snell 2000 helmet, they are just now becoming readily available. Protection wise, there is no reason to get a Snell 2000, the changes between the Snell 95 and Snell 2000 requirements are very minor. However helmets deteriorate with time, and several years from now the sanctioning bodies will likely start to require Snell 2000 helmets just to make sure people are not using excessively old helmets. So, if you get a Snell 2000 helmet (either M or SA), it will not become obsolete as soon.
But most important of all, make sure you get a helmet that fits! The fit of the helmet is critical - far more important than the small differences between an M and SA helmet. For this reason, I would not buy a helmet mail order unless you have had an opportunity to try on the same model/size to check the fit. If you are having trouble finding a good fit with one brand of helmet, try a different brand. The 'shape' of the helmet definitely changes between brands - for example Simpson helmets simply do not fit my head, but my Bell fits like a glove.
For more information on helmets and the Snell standards, check out the Snell foundation web site - www.smf.org.
Tim