ICC tag

Vernon Head · Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject: ICC tag

TM now makes an ICC with electric start. Anybody interested in seeing this motor made legal in Solo II? It sure would make things easier. You can view one at www.italianmotors.com

Brian Garfield · Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:03 am Post subject:

Interesting Vernon. Good idea.

I'm still not sure I'd like the supposed extra expense, but that does seem to eliminate the axle-driven water pump issue for Solo.

If ICC is legal, I don't see why this wouldn't be, it follows the rules as I read them and doesn't give an performance advantage, at least not until you stall on course.

Boy, it sure would be easier than both current formats when there's a delay at the start.

Brian

Jake Mottaz · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:38 pm Post subject:

That certainly would be nice for me. Then I wouldn't have to push start my Dad and Vern all the time Very Happy

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Jake

Danny Lerner · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:46 pm Post subject:

From what I've read in the rules, it should be legal as is. I also think it would be a great motor to use for auto-x if it was decently reliable, and didnt cost so much. But, I'd be willing to bet that its not as reliable as a stock cr125, and that it costs a hell of a lot more...

Danny
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Dan Davis · Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:03 am Post subject:

Where does it say that the coolant pump isn't external? Where is the pump in the pic? It looks like a K9 with a starter under the reed valve but I don't see a coolant pump.....Just curious if anyone has seen one in person or know where there might be more pics.

William Sandoval · Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:13 am Post subject:

I think you are right Dan, this looks just like the icc motor with an electric starter. Hence, it will probably require and external water pump.

Pete Mottaz · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject:

Brian Garfield · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject:

Pete, what I meant by the WP was that you could pull up to the line and shut it off if you needed to sit, simply pushing the button to start back up.

Having spoken in depth with Eric in the past about it, he still had to find ways to keep it cool, by either shutting down, or driving around in circles. Then there's simply having buddy to put a piece of wood under the chassis. Of course, this is only really an issue with delays.

Yeah, the maintenance would certainly scare me.

Brian

Vernon Head · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject:

Green Flag's site- http://www.greenflag.net - says that a TM needs new crankshaft bearings every 60 liters of fuel. That's about 15 gallons, which would probably get you through a full season of autocrossing, even pros, tours and Nationals. Not too bad. They also say get a new rod bearing every 120 liters, or every 30 gallons. Top ends are about the same as Moto.

Andrew. james · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject:

I'm still not sure if the ICC would be an better than the cr125 for auto-x.

Vernon Head · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject:

I think the potential is there, and that we will be seeing them in larger numbers this year. Lots of people say they're not good for autocross, but if sprint racing is any indication, these motors will be very fast.

Brian Garfield · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject:

Well, I'll just hope it's like Renault vs. McClaren...

Brian

Dan Davis · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:18 am Post subject:

ICC's would be very good for Autocross....after all, they were designed to be raced on short tight tracks. The throttle response and feel is much more controllable & when properly set up, are a joy to drive. But remember, they make just as much hp as a fully modified CR so traction at most auto-x events will still be the major issue.......along with going way too fast to make the next set of coners.....thats right, CONERS. Laughing

The STOCK CR would likely just as usable if left stockish.

For anyones info:
My crank pin, rod bearing, thrust washers, rod, and main bearings looked wonderful after a recent rebuild on a Pavesi (TM's use identical main bearings and rod bearings). I ran approx. 180 liters of fuel in a road racing application using xceramic pre-mix at 20:1 through the engine before the service. I also use Wiesco forged pistons and have no trouble getting 8 hours(120 literes) out of the piston while changing the ring 2 times over that period. Cast pistons (stock) were normally changed after 5 hours or 75 literes of fuel. I have never had a bottom end failure or piston failure with this engine. I also have 2 fully modified Honda's and believe they are outstanding engines as well but I did have a brand new crank let go of a thrust washer one time in several years of road racing using the same pre-mix and ratio. It just goes to show that even brand new parts can fail from time to time.

With this, I have come to love ICC engines and believe like Tom Barth says: If properly fed with fuel & oil, the ICC engines are very reliable while being very fast.

The starter thing might be nice but frankly, to me it seems like something else to pay for and have fall off. Still, it would be nice to just be sitting there waiting, start the thing up while being seated, and taking off. I'll be sticking with the KISS method whenever possible.....Less parts=Less parts to break. Autox would certainly be a different story since they are normally running for less than 1 minute at a time. That means you get PLENTY of time to check things over.