So where do I start?

[Brian Weikert]

Hello all,

I'm interested in getting into F125 (ESP is just too darned expensive), but I have no real idea where to start in order to choose the correct equipment.

I've been reading here for a while, and perusing the for sale section, and there are a lot of Karts for sale for pretty reasonable prices, but I've got no idea how to tell from the listings what is or isn't legal (or good) for Solo 2 use.

How new of a chassis do I need to be looking at for Solo 2 use? Can I get a reasonably old Kart (99, etc.) on the cheap and be in reasonably good shape for Auto-X? I don't need to be competitive at Nationals, as I'm sure it will take me a while to get used to autocrossing even a slow Kart, it's a pretty huge transition from the Mustang

Basically, I'm looking for general guidance as far as what to look for since I have no idea what a lot of the terms tossed around in the for sale section mean.

On a side note - is there such a thing as an electric starter system for shifters? I'd like to not have to depend on other people to help me at my local events, and I'm willing to give up the weight to carry a small battery and starter if such a thing is possible.

Thanks for any tips, clues, or general advice!
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Brian

[Larry Andrews]

Good question Brian!

A lot of the answer comes down to figuring out what it is that you want to be doing. And that depends a lot on your specific situation.

If you just want to drive a kart that's easy to manage at events, then I'd almost have to recommend a TaG kart or one with a World Formula engine because of the electric start. They're starting to be available on the used market and aren't all that expensive although they're currently holding value much better than shifters have.

If you want to go fast, shifters are the way to go. But they're a lot more work.

Seat time inevitably creeps into the buying decision. Autocrossers are always in search of more seat time, and karts are a great way to get lots of time for little money. Trick is that you need to have a place to play...if there aren't kart or race tracks within a reasonable distance then you're kinda screwed there unless you know of a big lot that will let you goof off.

If there's a place to play, then it's reasonable that the ultimate decision will have something to do with what's done in that environment. If you don't have a place to play nearby, you'll probably want to focus on being successful autocrossing which means a built moto shifter.

I realize that this isn't much of an answer, but it's food for thought.

-la

[Brian Weikert]

Thanks for the response Larry,

My main goal is to eventually become competitive in Solo2 with the Kart, so I really don't want to get something that will have to be 100% replaced if I hit the Tours (which I expect I will at some point, I did enjoy the tours I did in ESP).

For the seat time, I live about an hour from the PKRA track, which is a dedicated Karting track in NW Phoenix area, so I could do practice sessions there if I can't find someplace out in the boonies to get acquanted with the kart.

I don't forsee myself doing the track except to get comfortable with the kart and shifting - I did take an introduction to shifter karts session at Bondurant, which included about 2 hours of blazing around their track, so I know that I'll need some time in the seat to get comfortable.

Is there no electric start option for shifters at all? Is there some technical reason that it couldn't be done? The inability to start the kart myself is the biggest reason for not already jumping into karts.

I need something small enough and light enough that I can convert my tire trailer into a trailer to haul the autocrosser behind my ESP Mustang, which pretty much limits me to F125 or FM (possibly CM, with a new trailer).

What kind of 'work' are you referring to when you say that shifters are a lot more work than Tags?

Thanks!
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Brian

[Andrew. james]

Brain, I also new to f125. My goal is to be competitive at a national level by 06 championship (it's a goal)

How I started the process is I figured out what chassis I wanted and what I could afford. I had a total budget of 8k for everything. You could do it for alot less though.

I wouldn't buy a old chassis its not worth the couple hundred you will save. Get a 2002 or newer unless you can find something older that hasn't been beat to ****. I probably spent 6 months trying to decide which chassis I wanted. My top two choices for chassis were the CRG road rebel and the Arrow AX8. I got the Arrow becasue I found a deal on a new 2003. I was sitting in a guys basement for a year and he never even mounted a motor on it.

Then I went looking for a motor. (This is the work Larry is refering to) I decided the best option was to buy a new stock cr125 motor. I chose stock to learn on than I'll have it built to f125 rules. That probably isn't the cheapest way but my reason was its much harder to blow up a stock motor and much easier to figure out tuning. I bought it new because I didn't want someone elses mistakes getting in the way of me learning about the motor. I also bought all the ofther stuff new carb radiator and all that other junk.

I've learned alot since I got the kart 4 months ago. I've learned how to drive it fairly fast and I've learned how to tune it motor and chassis and work on it. During the winter break I'm either going to sell the motor and buy modified motor or have a shop locally modify it. I've been quoted 1k to fully build it to f125 rules using stock ignition. I brought the rulebook to the shop and had them read it.

Get a good seat and good safety equipment.

[Ryan D Thompson]

Brian,
Don't worry too much about the starting issues. They are very easy once you get used to roll starting it. I just bought mine a few weeks ago after driving STS for a few years. I had no idea how to start it or really anything about karts. After just a couple of times messing around with it I can start it very easily. Just push it yourself, jump into the seat, and put it in 2nd to fire it up.

I also tow mine with my 00 civic si so you won't have a problem at all with your mustang. I don't think the tire trailer is big enough though. The guy I bought mine from had his tire trailer converted for the kart. While it fits, that is the only thing you can put on it and always have to lift it up. I just bought a 5x8 trailer today and its so much better. I just loaded it up for tommorows auto-x and fit 2 gas tanks, cooler, set of tires, chairs, and a couple other things on it.

[Andrew. james]

park next to me in the morning Ryan, I want to use one of your chairs.

[Pete Mottaz]

Brian,
Sounds like you have a good karting facility at which to practice. Don't bother going to the boonies, just go to the track. If you are concerned about traffic while you learn, just talk to the folks running the track to see when there are non-busy times.

As far as buying the kart, a good way to go is to find a local kart shop and establish a relationship with them. They will likely have some good used karts for sale and usually will be willing to help you out with information, tuning tips and, of course, it helps to have a good source for parts and accessories. I'm sure the folks at Bondurant would have some suggestions.

Andrew makes a good point. Buy a stock 125 to start, it'll be more reliable and manageable. Once you become adept at tuning and driving it, you can have it built.

Pete

[Larry Andrews]

Hmmm, let's see here.

Sorry I wasn't more clear about "Work". By that, I meant the amount of time you'll spend tinkering on the kart. I don't know anyone with a race kart that doesn't spend significant time working on their kart - mostly doing maintenance and some 'tuning' work. I couldn't believe the amount of time that I spent tracking down the cause of little things that were bugging me - which is a great justification for buying a newer chassis/engine combo. All by themselves, old 'non-reservoir' brakes can add an hour of work time to each driving day just getting them bled properly because they quit being airtight as they wear out.

Re: Electric start. No motocross or ICC 125 engine that I've ever heard of has come with onboard electric start. I have seen some scary contraptions to do it, but none of them would probably get past a quasi-aware safety steward.

Realistically, it's not all that hard to do the 'run and jump' start by yourself. Just push the kart (hopefully downhill) as fast as you can, then jump into the seat, slide down to where you're butt's in the seat and pop it in gear. The safety guys tend to frown, but sometimes it's the only way.

There is *one* sorta out-there path that sounds *REALLY* interesting, which is the Honda CRF250X four-stroke motor. There's a lot of problems with this approach, not the least of which is whether it would be legal to run in the class. Once that issue is solved, there's a guy here in SoCal that has built one named Howie Idelson with the help of Neil at PowerSource Racing - they've got all the kinks worked out but at the cost of well over ten grand. However, he says that it's probably the best of all possible worlds - plenty fast, wide powerband, easy to start, good on gas and lots of time between rebuilds. Now to get it accepted... Oh, that and we'll have to see how long it holds up before exploding and what it'll cost to fix when it does.

hth, la

[Larry MacLeod]

[Paul Williamson]

since i got a kartlift and got my carb to idle, i start it on the stand (easily) and just drop down the kart with it running... just remember to hold in the clutch while climbing in, in case you hit the shift lever with your leg...

paulski
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My Behavior Does Not Reflect Anything

[Mark McCrary]

OK, can someone explain how you can run and start. I just do not see where you could put your foot on the kart after running. Are you all jumping to the floorpan?
Oh, I am very new to karting and I can already tell you to get a newer chassis or one with a the new braking system. I bought a kart that probably is not the best kart in the world. I don't think it could win Nationals but it was cheap so I can see if I like the class. Then if I get real serious I will probably sell the chassis. The old brake system sucks. I would love the karts if you did not have to worry about jetting and bleeding the brakes everytime out.
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Mark McCrary

[Ryan D Thompson]

I jump onto the seat with my feet, then i slide down into the seat, then pop the gear into 2nd.

[Andrew. james]

Run, put you butt on the top of the seat legs spread in the air and slide in. then put feet on pedals and pop it in 2nd.

[Larry Andrews]

Tips for the 'run and jump' starting method.

1) Push on the steering wheel.
2) Get going pretty quick.
3) Jump OVER the seat and radiator with both feet landing on the front flat part of the seat. (yes, over is cap'd for a reason that I learned the hard way!)
4) Slide down as described above and pop it into gear. Should start in a couple rotations of the engine.

The sliding in part can be more difficult with a Ribtect seat.

-la

[Pete Mottaz]