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Larry Andrews
Joined: 13 May 2002
Posts: 2848
Location: United States, California, SC Mtns
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 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:29 am Post subject: SuperKarts in A-Mod? |
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Hey, somebody's *GOT* to bring this up!!! 
So, who's with me here? Seems like a great idea to me and quite possibly a perfect fit in a class that's otherwise showing signs of demise. Not that anything would prevent someone from running a 'classic' A-Mod car, but it'd be nice to see the numbers pumped up a bit.
-la |
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Andrew. james
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 245
Location: United States, Georgia, Atlanta
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| It think it would also be a good fit performance wise if they made them legal in AM. I doubt it will happen though. Maybe if they had their own class but AM rules are so much different. |
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Pete Mottaz
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 65
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:40 am Post subject: Re: SuperKarts in A-Mod? |
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| Larry Andrews wrote: | Hey, somebody's *GOT* to bring this up!!!
So, who's with me here? Seems like a great idea to me and quite possibly a perfect fit in a class that's otherwise showing signs of demise. Not that anything would prevent someone from running a 'classic' A-Mod car, but it'd be nice to see the numbers pumped up a bit.
-la |
The main thing that prevents the superkart from being in amod is the min wheelbase requirement.
But, you can always write a letter.
Pete |
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Ryan D Thompson
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 199
Location: United States, Georgia,
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Has anybody tested them out on an auto-x track to see if they'd drive comparible times. You'd have to have some sort of useful information before the SEB is going to even think about considering it. |
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Larry Andrews
Joined: 13 May 2002
Posts: 2848
Location: United States, California, SC Mtns
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Problem thus far seems to be that a group of people on BOD?/SEB/KAC consider them to be 'Unsafe' for *ANY* autocross. At least, that is the answer that I got when I asked the question before...but Pete's post seems to indicate that this may be changing. |
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Pete Mottaz
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 65
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Larry Andrews wrote: | | Problem thus far seems to be that a group of people on BOD?/SEB/KAC consider them to be 'Unsafe' for *ANY* autocross. At least, that is the answer that I got when I asked the question before...but Pete's post seems to indicate that this may be changing. |
Actually, my post indicated no such thing,  it only recommends that writing a letter is the only way to garner any response or action from the SEB. Discussing it on a forum, regardless of who may be reading, will accomplish nothing.
Speaking personally, I'd love to see it. Realistically I think the SEB may be reticent to modify the A mod wheel base rule. But hey, stranger things have happened. Hence, write the letter if you're serious.
Pete |
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Brian Garfield
Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 667
Location: United States, Maryland, SKCA Racing!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Keep in mind, FSAE cars were allowed in A Modified before they had their own class, and their wheelbase doesn't meet the requirements either. The point is, if you have data that makes sense to THEM, then you've got a shot.
My feeling is that if they've had issues in the recent past, they will still have issues. But as Pete says, write a letter.
seb@scca.org
Brian |
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Larry Andrews
Joined: 13 May 2002
Posts: 2848
Location: United States, California, SC Mtns
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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I wish that I didn't have to be so vague...my last post would have been more clear.
Anyway, as always, the letter is the first step. Thanks for the input. -la |
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Kevin Edens
Joined: 26 Jul 2001
Posts: 209
Location: United States, Arkansas, Sherwood
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I dont have an SCCA rule book anymore, since I no longer autocross. But when I was running A Mod, I thought one of the rules was that all four tires had to be suspended. This would elemenate any "kart" from A-Mod. George Bowlands BBR specials where nothing but 500cc karts, with a big A$$ wing, but it did have shocks and springs. |
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Brian Garfield
Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 667
Location: United States, Maryland, SKCA Racing!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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I happen to have it in front of me. Of course there are several rules that exclude karts. But, there was a separate section of the book that states what an FSAE car needs to be legal for A Mod. So, if you were trying to get an exception, you would need a similar section.
But, since I'm killing time right now, here are the rules keeping any kart from A Modified:
1) 18.4.B.2. Minimum wheelbase is 72 inches
2) 18.4.B.4. Minimum wheel diameter is 10 inches
3) 18.4.B.5. All four wheels will be sprung from the chassis
4) 18.4.B.7. ...Roll Bar crap...
5) 18.4.B.8. ...driver restraint system crap...
Finally, under Appendix A, Classes, Modified Category, Modified Class A:
"Cars with a minimum weight of 900lbs..."
Of course many of you know this stuff, but when I type things I remember them, so now I'll be able to quote better 
Brian |
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Alan Sheidler
Joined: 09 Aug 2001
Posts: 471
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Kevin Edens wrote: | | I dont have an SCCA rule book anymore, since I no longer autocross. But when I was running A Mod, I thought one of the rules was that all four tires had to be suspended. This would elemenate any "kart" from A-Mod. George Bowlands BBR specials where nothing but 500cc karts, with a big A$$ wing, but it did have shocks and springs. |
You must have been away for a while. George's prior and current car are way more than just a frame, engine, and suspension. The technological aspects of current AM cars are huge factors in their performance. The latest BBR Shark makes extensive use of carbon fiber for the aerodynamic portions (wings). They were CAD spec'd by a university's aerodynamics school and built by an Indy Car shop in Indianapolis. I know firsthand that days of high-tech testing and development were done to maximize the downforce at low to moderate speeds, in addition to the normal shock and chassis tuning.
As for 250 Superkarts having a chance against any but the cars between midpack and lower.... Forget it. Drop Dan Cyr a note and ask about the capabilities of a good AM. No kart in the world will run with them. 
Now, if your intent is to get 250's out to Autocrosses with the SCCA's blessing, and having an ulterior motive of eventually getting an intependent class for the 250's..... Personally, having spent several years working to get that accomplished for the 125's, I think you may be a year or two too early. AND, it may be a bitter and long struggle.
The F125 class is just now gaining a broader acceptance among autocross competitors. My prediction is that it will gain 10 drivers beyond the prior highest level of participation at Nationals, for the 2006 event in Topeka.
Soon, we will indeed be just another class.
FYI, a year ago, a driver with accomplishments and a track history as long as your arm asked to run his Superkart at OVR. Sadly, he could not. The reservations held by the SEB and BOD in the SCCA regarding more powerful karts relate not to experienced and sane drivers, but to the few who would pose the greatest risk. For some reason, karts with 250's are as cheap or even cheaper than 125's on eBay and in Classifieds sections. Seems to me that although F125's post incredible times as compared to most cars, the perception is that they are still "toys". All we'd need is some idiot with more balls than brains to decide running a 250 is macho, and then get hurt showing off the tire-burning power at 70mph.
I know this is long... Heck, I'd like to have a go in a 250 myself! (No comments, please, about my gonad/grey matter ratio.) But right now I think there are more pressing matters for karts in Solo,. like getting an independent class for the Pro Series.
Alan |
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Pete Mottaz
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 65
Location: United States, California,
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian Garfield wrote: | ...
Finally, under Appendix A, Classes, Modified Category, Modified Class A:
"Cars with a minimum weight of 900lbs..."
Brian |
hmmm...a superkart with 600lbs of ballast...and you thought the Junior kart ballast is bad!!
Pete |
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Larry Andrews
Joined: 13 May 2002
Posts: 2848
Location: United States, California, SC Mtns
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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I'll defer to your expertise, Alan. Good feedback BTW, thanks.
I don't think my intent was 'to be competitive with the Phantom' but rather just to provide a place for 250 karts with wings to play at the autocrosses. Kinda like letting Spec Miatas run in DSP, it's just a way to let a racer play with his toys in a safe environment that won't cause trouble for others because there's no way the car will be competitive in most cases.
I've seen a couple Rotax 251 superkarts go on Ebay recently for three grand and it's had me up nights thinking... I always wanted a few laps in Mr. Sunday's rig BUT um, well I don't fit very well in Dave's seat. As much as I love the way a good moto gets off the line, I can't help but wonder if the extra juice of a 250 would get back some of the awe I used to feel when I started karting. <shrug> |
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Brian Garfield
Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 667
Location: United States, Maryland, SKCA Racing!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:32 am Post subject: |
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It's kinda of funny, with the upcoming popularity of karts around here, several larger members of the D.C. Region were kidding about having a "250 Heavy" shifter kart class...
Remember, LOCAL Regions can make whatever class they want. As well, that class is allowed to be carried over into DIVISIONAL events as well. You just have to fight really hard for National stuff.
Brian |
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Larry Andrews
Joined: 13 May 2002
Posts: 2848
Location: United States, California, SC Mtns
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Brian, I think that you might be mistaken when it comes to making *any* class that can be imagined, locally. There are insurance restrictions... |
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