Roll Cage in karts

[Tom Stephens]

quote:

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Originally posted by Stephen Buckley:
All,
This subject has been bantered about many many times in the past. At one time, I was going to mount a simple u-shaped pipe made from 7/8 inch stainless steel marine gunnel railing material. It's cheap, strong and fairly lightweight. Using very basic marine clamping hardware, it would mount right behind the seat, with the total height about the same as the top of the helmet. It's one of those "I'll get to it someday" jobs.

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Stephen, did you ever mount your full rear bumper???

Tom Stephens
www.kartfinder.com

[Wayne MacGregor]

My fear of using roll cages is that they might result in a kind of self fulfilling prophesy where a perceived heightned sense of safety actually contributes to more, not less contact and resulting rollovers.

Although not 100% related, I do know for a fact, for example, that karters equipped with full bodywork make contact a lot more than those who don't run it. Perhaps a reason that the IKF is mandating CIK style bodywork for 2002?

My point is that many times the quest for technological advancement carries with it some unintended results of "human factors." I would really hate to see sprint karting ending up a "contact sport."

[Mike Goebel]

I would tell them to think of it more like RR motorcycles. You wouldn't put a roll cage on a motorcycle would ya? Just because you can more easily put a cage on a go-kart than a motorcycle doesn't mean it's a necessity. Yes I know it would be safer and droves of people would start racing go-Karts . Mountain biking has way more injuries per race, and more severe typically. Last race at Big Bear two got flown out with broken necks and a bunch with concussions. Believe me I worry about my Bro every time he races mountain bikes.


Mike G.

[Todd Bellew]

My vision of what a KArt with a cage would look like reminds me of a beach ball. A small very Square shaped cage. I would not want to be strapped into a Cage that has more of a tendency to roll than stop.

And I also believe more protection means more contact. Nascar has fenders F1 cars don't. Nascars TOUCH and CRash at a much higher rate than F1 cars.

Thank You,
Todd Bellew

[Stephen Buckley]

Tom,


Yes, I did. It seems that many of the karts brought into Canada from Britain have full-width bumpers. Nothing new there!

[Todd Godwin]

There are three or four classes for champ karts on the WKA oval circuit (Sr. Champ, Star Champ, Jr. Champ, and 1 or 2 Jr. Sportsman champs I think). I've never run the class but most people I've talked to about it do indicate that drivers tend to be a bit more courageous with the cage around them. The thing for me is that a couple of the very worst accidents I've seen were with cage karts. Also, although its hard to put a price on safety, the cage does add a bit of cost to the price of the chassis.

[Tom Stephens]

quote:

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Originally posted by Stephen Buckley:
Tom,
Yes, I did. It seems that many of the karts brought into Canada from Britain have full-width bumpers. Nothing new there!

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Stephen, good for you!!! I still don't think I will be able to as my understanding is it is still against IKF rules (Wayne, is this changing for 2002?). If most flips occur from running up on the back tires, you'd think the full bumpers would help alleviate many roll-overs.
One of the main reasons I have heard for no full-width rear bumpers is that alot more punting occurs. Is this true in your experience? TIA :-)

Tom

[Brandon Schroder]

Yesterday I took a nice little role in my shifter after clipping a bail sideways. Ill tell you right now that i would rather be throwen out of the kart the have to role alnog with the kart. Id still never use a role cage!

[Tom Milner]

I think Brandon brings up a good point. I've seen one or two wrecks where the driver was thrown from his kart, which surely saved his life (CART Stars of Tommorow at LV). If I were to ever roll in a kart, you bet your bottom dollar I'll try to leave the kart than stay in it, if thats manageable

Adding a roll cage will bring the center of gravity higher and could easily cause more rollovers from just hitting a rumblestrip wrong. I think since most roll-overs are results of hitting another tire, ways to prevent that would be more effective than a rollcage.

I still think the best way to prevent roll-overs is common sense. I don't make any move in karting that I think I wouldn't be able to make. If I can't pass the guy, I don't and accept I won't beat him He did the better job so he deserves the win or the place ahead of me.

Just my .02 cents worth.

[Martin Secrest]

There was a "safe kart" built about 10 years ago and demonstrated at Charlotte. It was featured at the old thekartingwebsite address. In short, it was a laydown that placed the driver in a pod, which bolted to the frame at the regular seat points, and called for the driver to be restrained. Of course, a fire suppression system was also required. The creator of the kart (whose name escapes me at the moment) said it was quite fast. But the extra cost of the various design elements probably put it beyond the desire of the average karter to finance.

[Kenny Bolen]

It's never a simple issue to explain to someone who has never raced or attended a kart race. I have raced for 26 years something with wheels, with or without roll cages. The worst injury sustained just happen to be in a open wheel car, roll cage and all and the best in safety equipment. One thing I have not seen in this subject is insurance. It was mentioned that years ago sprint cars (for one) did not have roll cages and it contributed to many fatalities. Putting the cages on only helped the tracks obtain coverage and only after a while of accepting the look, they were made optional (USAC did not allow cages, but with growing pressure and the threat of declining participates, they made them optional) in addition of keeping some of the best drivers in the world safe and competing for many years. Once cages are put on karts, many additional things would have to change. Seats, belts, clearances, and the construction of karts would have to change to accomodate the design issues and in my IMO it would not qualify as a kart in the true spirit of karting. I for one would not be in favor of the cages on shifters as the reasons stated in the previous post have been pointed out. If someone felt nervous about competing without one, there are many forms of racing that incorporate cages (including karts) they can pursure and feel comfortable competing in.

[Rick Crow]

It is not as simple as just adding a roll bar and some type of leg restraint. Over the winter I built 2 caged sprint karts using elements of formula car type cage design(roll bar hoop and steering hoop connected by tubing in a triangle) I allowed the cage to float by using captive slip joints to let the chassis flex as normal as possible. The cage(1"X.065 4130) and related body work and hardware added 19# to the weight of the chassis and raised the VCG 1 inch. Since the cages are removable ( pain in the a**)I was able to compare the performance. Short and twisting track you notice it, longer tracks not very noticeable difference. by being strapped into the seat it is easier to track
the effects of chassis adjustments.
On a shifter you have several problems, to get in and out of a caged kart you need to remove the steering wheel, that still leaves the shifter and clutch levers in the way. For speedway shifters there is a motor mount that has an arm welded to it that will put a shift lever by your right thigh. but it is not convient considering the amount of shifting we all do on sprint tracks. The clutch can be operated by a lever mounted on the shifter or on a pedal (ie: anderson kart). The cage must be fabricated to not interfere with the pipe stinger where it crosses the cassette bearing. The left side crash bar has to be set a little higher to clear the radiator.

The kart is fun to drive and it does feel safe.The front hood that extends to the steering wheel makes it faster on the straights. but the cage/belts also gives a false sense of security. I have seen some very nasty injuries happen in caged speedway karts. Currently the caged is off, I think I prefer it without the cage. Getting in and out is not quick. Forget about hopping out of the kart to restart the engine if it stalls.It takes 2- 3 minutes to get in and get all the restraints on and adjusted .
I drove over a tire last spring in my open kart while bump drafting with a rookie and busted up my arm. it wasn't anyones fault but my own. My advise is not to drive over other peoples tires and be careful who you pick to bump draft with

Rick