Really??

Pete Muller · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2001 9:17 am Post subject: Really??

re: What is the future of shifter kart racing

Shifter kart racing has made kart racing in America. These karts provide the most challenge and racing performance for the money.- George Banke

Really?

I would respectfully point out that karting has been around since the late 50's... in other words: about 40 years (!) before shifter racing started to become fairly high profile.

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[shifter kart racing]... will only grow. Many strong local programs and prominent national events are already in place, and that provides a good base for growth.

Agreed... though I feel that "strong local programs" could make all of karting grow, not just shifter racing.

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The reason shifter kart racing has grown and will continue to do so is, simply, because people want to shift.

Many people do... though I don't think this is true across the board. Been to an international FA meeting?... or a 4-cycle dirt race in the Southeast?... or even to one of the many, many club races going on every weekend all over the U.S.?

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But, now that karting is at a higher level, some new straight drive motor classes are being introduced. The motors have serious restrictions to "hold the cost down", whatever that means. Isn't this what we just got away from?

Actually, I believe karting keeps going back to spec classes, not away from them. I'm a very big fan of open classes... however historically, every time a spec (stock or somewhat stock) class has been started based on a fairly decent, readily available engine... that class has flourished.

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Haven't Americans demonstrated enough times that they don't like too many restrictions?

I don't believe so.

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Better shifter programs will push karting forward. Commie motor classes will push it back.

I have a slightly different viewpoint:

Better local programs, and a broader (national) application of standardized/simplified rules might allow karting to grow.
Focusing on "my type of racing is better than your type of racing" will probably fragment the sport even more.

In closing...
I believe there is no disputing that shifter racing has brought an influx of people into karting. SKUSA (and others) have worked to bring karting to the masses through the media. This is, of course, very good... and will probably benefit the whole sport.
But... to view shifter racing as the be-all and end-all to the growth of karting is, IMO, a bit premature. A very small percentage of the karters in the U.S. race shifter karts... and on a worldwide level, the percentage is even smaller.
All the competitors running the PMT could probably stand in my shop without crowding each other too much... and while this may be a high-profile group, this is not overly representative of "the masses".
Karting appears to be fairly strong on all levels to me.

Quite respectfully...
Pete Muller

[ August 26, 2001: Message edited by: Pete Muller ]

lynn haddock · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2001 2:31 pm Post subject: Really??

I hate to think where karting would be today if the current lot of moto engines was all that was available to take up the slack back in 1976 when mcCulloch decided to withdraw.

Todd Godwin · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2001 4:20 pm Post subject: Really??

I think the reason that the tend continues to circle around spec engines is that although Americans may not like restrictions, many can't afford to race consistently without the cost savings that hopefully accompany the spec classes. I think one thing that is easily forgotten (at least here in the southeast) is that a big national event doesn't mean the sport is healthy. Its nice to talk about 800+ entries at a national, but what pays the bills for the companies and sanctioning bodies is often the weekend racer without lots of money who packs his stuff up each week and takes it to the local track.

Marshall Martin · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2001 1:33 am Post subject: Really??

Pete,Lynn and Todd

As a track operator I agree 100% with what you have each stated. SKUSA is the vehicle to give karting some national visibility. The local programs are still the backbone of this sport. Spec classes will thrive because the majority of weekend racers do not have the time, expertise and/or money to compete in open classes. New local racers move up to Regional and then National racing. The only SKUSA Pro Moto drivers that start at this level are the ones who have the money and direction to move up the racing ladder. For these people this is the best place. But for everyone of these individuals I would guess there are 100 new local racers. The new local racers are what generate growth and income for the whole industry. Lets use the SKUSA program for ideas on how to make our local programs grow. But most of all we need our local shops to profit and continue to bring in more new racers.

Darren Swisher · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2001 7:16 pm Post subject: Really??

Better local programs, and a broader (national) application of standardized/simplified rules might allow karting to grow. Focusing on "my type of racing is better than your type of racing" will probably fragment the sport even more.

Pete, I could not agree more, on both parts.

Local program improvement and universal rules are the needed Medication from the karting going no where blues.

Darren

Mike Weaver · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2001 5:10 am Post subject: Really??

Outstanding views by all!

Kenny Bolen · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2001 11:48 am Post subject: Really??

My two cents. I miss the days of true open classes in the sprint division. I also miss the variety of engines that could be used across the boards in several classes. Of course this would bred a so-called expense, but think about this; Are there really any fast inexpensive engines? I use to participate in any true PPort or Reed class available or move into an Open class just for the shear excitment of a faster class. Now, you must either have a high dollar Briggs, or a class of Yamaha to even show up to race. Since moving to shifters, it's not only the shifting that can be challenging, but offers a larger and more available chance of 'wrung-watcha-brung". As a customer of Mr. Haddocks, we spoke about the dismay of the Formula A class or the Formula Y class drying up over the country.My local tracks (Cuddebackville, Westhampton) hardly have any pipes to contend with. Shifters, Briggs, Box mufflers, and yes, the new Rotax-Max, is leading the way, with shifters and the Max carrying on the 2-cycle banner.

bbanke · Joined: 25 Jul 2001 Posts: 12

The question was what is the future of Shifter Kart Racing?

As regards the cost of racing shifter karts versus the cost of karting, shifter kart racing is expensive when compared to karting. Therein lies the problem. Shifter Kart racing is not karting and shifter kart racers are more than weekend hobbyists. Shifter Kart Racing is rapidly evolving into a viable Professional Motorsport.

As more drivers such as Memo Gidley, Alex Baron, Jason Lapoint, Joey Hand, Patrick Long and Philip Giebler move into the upper rankings of "prime time" motorsports, shifter kart racing will gain the recognition needed to move into the "prime time" motorsports arena.

At present when compared with all other motorsports, shifter kart racing is the least expensive and dollar for dollar offers the most performance and greatest challenges.

Those of us who have been involved in shifter kart racing since it began in this country do not view it as a hobby. We became involved because we love racing and we saw the potential of what shifterkart racing could become. Thanks to the efforts of SKUSA and many others who share our passion and our vision we are on our way.

There are no guide books, no instruction manuals. All the knowledge that has been gained has been through trial and error and a lot of hard work. It is only natural that mistakes are made. There is still a lot of work to be done. Fortunately, there are a lot of good people involved to make it happen. Instead of being so quick to judge and dole out criticism why not use that energy to make shifter kart racing and karting the best they can be. In doing so, all of karting will benefit.

There is something for everyone in karting and there is plenty to go around. Unfortunately, with all the bickering and whining that goes on no one would want to become involved in karting.

Betty Banke
Banke Racing Works

Rob Linders · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 725

Betty,

If I'm not mistaken the quote was "Commie motors will push the sport back". That comment and others began of the "bickering and whining" you mentioned. I think the "Commie motors" ie. Rotax Max will be a good thing.

Rob

Mike Goebel · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2001 4:10 am Post subject: Really??

quote:

Shifter Kart racing is not karting and shifter kart racers are more than weekend hobbyists. Shifter Kart Racing is rapidly evolving into a viable Professional Motorsport.

There is a statement that will make you a lot of friends

. I'd hate to be one of those lame FA non shifter kart drivers.

Mike G.

Pete Muller · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2001 6:57 am Post subject: Really??

quote:
Originally posted by Banke Racing Works:
Shifter Kart racing is not karting and shifter kart racers are more than weekend hobbyists. Shifter Kart Racing is rapidly evolving into a viable Professional Motorsport.
Betty Banke

Betty,

I would beg to differ. There are plenty of "weekend hobbyists" that drive shifter karts. As a matter of fact, anyone in any business associated with shifter karts better hope like hell that the number of weekend hobbyists increases dramatically. These are the people that pay the bills... and make karting possible for everyone.

As far as shifter kart racing being (or evolving into) a professional motorsport: it may some day get there... but don't forget that what is high profile to "us" here in the U.S. does not really compare with FA/FSA in Europe (or a good portion of the rest of the world, for that matter).

PM

[ September 01, 2001: Message edited by: Pete Muller ]

Gary Osterholt · Site Admin Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 2769

I have to agree with Pete.

Most of the racers are out to have a good time. I'm one of them. I'm in the middle of college, studying mechanical engineering. With that, I don't have much time to race. If I race once a month, I'm happy. I'm racing shifters, because they are ALOT of fun. You have to do so much so quick, takes a good driver. At the last race I went to, I finished 6th out of 7. But was fast for me, as I only try to get faster each time out on the track. And guess what, I had FUN.

Which to me, and i think most of the people that race, is the name of the game.

Gary Osterholt
www.garyosterholt.com
Yes I have my own website, because website design is another hobby of mine.

Mark MacDonald · Joined: 05 Aug 2001 Posts: 124

I couldn't help but read this thread with awe at the amount of true knowledge represented. Everyone here has been in the sport so long it makes me feel like a little kid that hasn't even had his feet wet after 8 years... Anyway, i did have one concern. I noticed a statement

quote:
As more drivers such as Memo Gidley, Alex Baron, Jason Lapoint, Joey Hand, Patrick Long and Philip Giebler move into the upper rankings of "prime time" motorsports, shifter kart racing will gain the recognition needed to move into the "prime time" motorsports arena.

Now, it's true that Alex Barron, Memo Gidley, etc. had such shifter kart experience, but I hadn't thought that Pat Long had taken that route...I recall watching him win all kinds of Constructers Cup JICA and FA races. So I visited his site only to find this resume.

'98 Constructor's Cup Formula-A Champion

1st Place '98 Winter Cup - Lonato, Italy
(first American in 20 years to win International karting event)

2nd overall in '98 North American Championship
(International Series)
1st Place '98 North American Championship Finals 1 & 2

One of 12 finalists for '98 Formula A "Kartman of the Year"
(Voted by Editors of 10 European Motorsports Magazines)

Won 27 of 44 Constructor's Cup races '97-'98

Set track records in 7 of 10 states he raced in

4-Time US National Champion

3-Time US Top Qualifier

2-Time US All Junior Champion

2-Time California State Champion

Runner-up '97 Constructor's Cup

Runner-up '96 Belgium Championship

Maybe my reading is bad, or his website is incorrect, but I don't see anything about Skusa there. Oh well, just wanted to keep ya'll on your toes...

Mark MacDonald
MTM Karting
330.497.3585

Ok, a few hours later and I stand slightly corrected. I was reading in another thread where Pat's name came up and Marc Miller pointed out that Pat indeed ran an 80cc whenever he got the chance. Thank you for that info Marc...

[ September 03, 2001: Message edited by: Mark MacDonald ]

Chad Stapleton · Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Posts: 4403

quote:
Originally posted by Banke Racing Works:
As regards the cost of racing shifter karts versus the cost of karting, shifter kart racing is expensive when compared to karting. Therein lies the problem.

At present when compared with all other motorsports, shifter kart racing is the least expensive and dollar for dollar offers the most performance and greatest challenges.

Betty,
These two statements are in direct conflict, unless you are excluding all non-shifter karts from your definition of "all other motorsports" as i suspect that there are a lot of non-shifter karters who would argue that their $$/performance ratio is probably better than shifters.
Not to mention a heap of bike racers, etc !!

""
There is something for everyone in karting and there is plenty to go around. Unfortunately, with all the bickering and whining that goes on no one would want to become involved in karting.""

Betty,-- the words "glasshouses" and "throwing stones" spring to mind !!

Jeff Morningstar · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2001 2:51 pm Post subject: Really??

I am also a over weight racer but I have fun out on the track. It's a blast to drive a shifter and I seem to go a little faster each week .. But my point is it is fun.....

=jeff=