"commie motor"

[Chuck McCue]

"Haven't Americans demonstrated enough times that they don't like too many restrictions? Better shifter programs will push karting forward. Commie motor classes will push it back - George Banke"

I have to agree here with you, George. Since these overly restricted and governed motors will fade, what do you think the "next KT100" will be? Just as the KT put the Mac's into extinction many years ago do you think the Moto, ICC or even a "green" 4T motor will take over as the most popular motor?

[lynn haddock]

Seems to me it was a good thing the 'commie' KT100 became available when it did (just as mac was getting out of the business), otherwise karting would have been in big trouble.
I personally don't think everyone wants to shift, nor do they want to spend what is required to field a shifter package.
When you consider that the majority of kart racers in the USA currently run 4 stroke engines, I think its good that karting offers a variety of choices.

[Larry Ferguson]

quote:

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Originally posted by lynn haddock:

When you consider that the majority of kart racers in the USA currently run 4 stroke engines, I think its good that karting offers a variety of choices.

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Lynn, can you inform us as to where this information comes from? Since we are from S. California, we don't often see the "lawn mowers" run, so it's hard for me to understand that the "majority" of kart racers in the US are running 4 strokes. Thanks.

[lynn haddock]

Larry, consider yourself lucky !!!!
But I believe if you check the participation facts from IKF/WKA/KART + ASN CANADA you will find that the VAST majority of kart racing is conducted with 4 stroke power.
Not my cup of tea either, but fact.

[Rick Crow]

Looking at the situation from my position as a consumer. I don't see where engines that cost $4k-6K are or will push karting forward. The numbers don't prove it since the 4cycle and 2cycle single gear events still draw larger numbers of entries in most areas of the country. I'm not a fan of so-called "Commie" motor classes . But from most of the people I talk to, after they see the cost of 125 shifters most start looking at the rotax max and Kt100's.
I don't think there will be another kt100.The KT came along at a time when as Lynn says Mac was getting out and as I am told the euro motors were getting expensive. It was a perfect opportunity for Yamaha.There are too many players in the game now for any one motor to stand out unless they can kill everyone else on price and durability.
What I feel is going to sell now is reduced maintance costs and ease of use.racing for 90% of us is a hobby that we do in conjunction with other interests.We no longer have time to spend most of our evenings prepping motors for the race next weekend.and 10K is still alot of money for most people to spend on a hobby.
If you look at the costs of racing in 125 moto from 5 years ago till today the costs have easily doubled.IMO Shifter racing quickly is going the way of Formula A it will eventually price itself out of the mainstream and become a small niche.

JMO
Rick

[Rick Crow]

Larry
If you want two stroke nervana California,Florida, or Ohio/Indiana is the place to be. outside of there it is dominated by rototiller motors. I live in upstate ny I could race 4-5 days a week on dirt and asphalt ovals with a briggs engine all within an hour of home. But instead I drive 3 hours to find 3 guys to race a 100cc 2stroke on a sprint track
Recent WKA national up this way I'm told had over 400 entries. almost all were 4stroke briggs

Rick

Rick

[Jack Burroughs]

LYNN is right, just look at all the small tracks in the East, the lawn mowers have taken over. Why? Well just look at it, I started with Macs went to Yam., then to Parilla. The endless Tech. up-grades of pipes,clutches, tires etc. just got overwhelming after years of building lots of parts and doing my own blueprinting and puting up with cheaters and insane track owner/operators with vested interests, I started 4-stroke racing. It is a great challenge to build competitive motors to compete. Even tho they are labor and parts intensive there are many small tracks you don't need a "Nationals Quality" motor to compete,and this equates to more bang-for-your-buck or fun as the origional intention of Kart Racin' started with.

[John Denman]

When I look at the variety of classes I notice a participant varience year to year. Unlimiteds are great for some, and sealed motor tech (Rotax) are great for some. And oddly these creatures seem to drift and shift from one end to the other and back among the veterans.

Commie motors aren't for everyone, but robber baron grenade motors are for even fewer.

Its probably OK for someone in SP to spend $3000 a weekend on a top competitive motor, but I think the S2 class would evaporate if they had to spend $2000 a weekend to have a top competitive motor.

[Dave Malloy]

What is a 'commie' KT100?

[John Bosanek]

quote:

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Originally posted by JACK BURROUGHS:
LYNN is right, just look at all the small tracks in the East, the lawn mowers have taken over. Why? Well just look at it, I started with Macs went to Yam., then to Parilla. The endless Tech. up-grades of pipes,clutches, tires etc. just got overwhelming after years of building lots of parts and doing my own blueprinting and puting up with cheaters and insane track owner/operators with vested interests, I started 4-stroke racing. It is a great challenge to build competitive motors to compete. Even tho they are labor and parts intensive there are many small tracks you don't need a "Nationals Quality" motor to compete,and this equates to more bang-for-your-buck or fun as the origional intention of Kart Racin' started with.

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Normally I wouldn't respond to something like this, but this kind of statement gets to me.....The whole reason I GOT OUT of karting 12-13 years ago was because of the the insane rule changes, cheaters, and track owners with vested interests. I was racing Briggs karts on a dirt oval and it seemed that every time I went to the track the rules had changed and my new motor was obsolete. I don't know what type of racing you are doing but a "Nationals Quality" motor was the only thing that would get you into the winners circle. A person can get pretty feed up with all the rule changes and garbage that goes along with them, which is what happened to me.

I'm cetainly not saying that 2 stroke racing is a total paradise, go to the local track and listen to everyone complain. All I'm saying is that unless things are drasticly different on the East coast, racing a Briggs, is in my experience, every bit, if not more political, whinny, and full of cheaters as any class. Hell, I've seen guys hiding out in the corner of the pits with a ratio gauge so that they could mix in a touch of nitro to their alcohol, and of course the level of bending, breaking, or downright ignoring of the rules does very from track to track. To say that 4 stroke classes don't have the issues that the 2 stroke classes do, is in my experience, completely untrue.

BTW I'm not slamming 4 strokes, I'd probaby give Briggs oval racing a try again, but with my current road racing program I just can't afford both.

All of this is JMO based on MY experiences.

[Dave Stevens]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Malloy:
What is a 'commie' KT100?

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It's red, in short supply, you have to stand in line for hours to even try to get one and it runs on potato vodka.

Perhaps one of more of our "Komrads" aren't aware that red baiting has been out of fashion for the last few decades.

Spec motors do have a place, as evidenced by the sucess of the Rotax in such a short time. I know several people that would not have even started if not for that. Open specs are fine in the upper and pro classes, but not everyone wants or is able to put that much time and effort into what for most is merely a hobby or recreational activity.

Dave

[Rick Crow]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Stevens:


It's red, in short supply, you have to stand in line for hours to even try to get one and it runs on potato vodka.

Dave

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I like the concept of Vodka for fuel, much simpler to tech, If you won't drink what is in your tank you are DQ'ed

Rick

[Tom Stephens]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Malloy:
What is a 'commie' KT100?

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Dave, the "commie" motor class is defined in the last paragraph of the current Tech Hit Squad article at http://www.ekartingnews.com/tech/hitsquad/010823hitsquad2.html

Tom Stephens
www.kartfinder.com

[Bill Wright]

>>Commie motors aren't for everyone, but robber baron grenade motors are for even fewer.<<

Shifter or clutch, a very true and timely statement.

FIA is working hard to develope the spec "World Kart" chassis and 4 stroke engine. SKUSA is continuing to develope a clear seperation of the Regional and Pro Moto level competitor and equipment.

Both of those organizations understand that karting has multiple levels of participant committment, and both are developing programs that meet the needs of these distinctly different groups of competitors.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with wanting to have the fastest grenade on the planet, if you can afford it. It's nice to see that these organizations recognize there are people who don't want it, and are developing options that will meet all the participants needs, open, spec, or sealed.

Bill Wright
"Get on Course!" with FK www.formulakart.com

[ August 28, 2001: Message edited by: Bill Wright ]

[Tom Stephens]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill Wright:
FIA is working hard to develope the spec "World Kart" chassis and 4 stroke engine.
Bill Wright
"Get on Course!" with FK www.formulakart.com

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Bill, do you have any more information on this chassis and 4 stroke engine and/or a timetable?

Tom Stephens
www.kartfinder.com