Shifter costs and the PMT

Doug Welch · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 5:06 am Post subject: Shifter costs and the PMT

I found the remarks from the HTS about the high costs very interesting.

We have all know for some time that there is no such thing as a free ride. It doesn't exist. No kart importer can sell anywhere near enough karts to justify running a national level team. Does any of the race car manufacturers run factory teams in most forms of motor sports? The vast majority of motor sports are supported by sponsorship from companies who are looking for exposure for their products.

Karting can do the same but it first must come up with a product that people want to watch. Tim has it right. We have to take the program to the people. Did spectators head out to the hills to watch motocross? Not until it was brought into the arena did it take off. Barrie and Cal Expo are examples of how it should work.

Keith has the right idea on how to work a national program. The manufacturer provides transportation, tent, parts and technical support. Privateers pay for their proportionate share of those costs. The manufacturer receives exposure for their products when the karters do well and their basic costs are covered by the guys running the program.

The problem I see is that some karters need to be educated to understand that the manufacturers can not give you anything for free. When you move under the big tent, you still have to pay your way. Either bring daddys $ or some form of personal sponsorship but you still have to pay.

Doug

Darren Swisher · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 5:27 am Post subject: Shifter costs and the PMT

Doug, I agree also.

I sponsor a few teams with equipment and the relationship I have is of sales and marketing. They must produce sales leads. This is the only way I can afford to do it.

Darren

Jeff Franz · Joined: 16 Jul 2001 Posts: 524

quote:
Originally posted by Doug Welch:
Did spectators head out to the hills to watch motocross? Not until it was brought into the arena did it take off. Doug

Doug,

Speaking of motocross, an idea I hear occasionally is the notion of running a karting support race in the parking lots of the stadiums hosting a motocross event. Spectators can watch kart racing in the early/mid afternoon, then go inside to watch the motocross towards late afternoon/evening.

I haven't honestly weighed all the pros and cons of such an idea, but on the surface I can see some merit. Obviously, the biggest pro is to capitalize on the spectator draw of the motocross event.

And as far as the current costs go, I think I liked Tim's line the best... "This is not a philanthropic endeavor for us."

Jeff Franz

Russ McGrane · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 6:35 am Post subject: Shifter costs and the PMT

The idea of support of a motorcross race (I assume AMA supercross is what you are talking about) would be great, because the demographic of the fans would seem pretty ideal. I think the big issue would be space. Many supercross events sell out the entire stadium, and there is a big section of the parking lot already used by the supercross teams pits. By the time you take more space for the kart track and pits, you won't have any place for the 50,000+ people to park.

Stephen Buckley · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 861

Karting can do the same but it first must come up with a product that people want to watch.....

I think that the biggest difference between kart racing and motocross is that "tons" of kids, adults, or for that matter, everybody has a moto bike sitting in their garage that they can go ride practically anywhere. They aren't limited to a track, or have to be licensed, or have to join a club, etc. Also, the karts you might find in many garages are fun-karts, not racing karts. $0.02

Darren Swisher · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 8:16 am Post subject: Shifter costs and the PMT

Steve, Ya I see your point.

The Arena Cross fan base is into extreme type sports where AIR is a major draw. What I mean is they like to see These Bikes get into the air.

SHifter karts are definatly extreme but until we can get them 10 or 20 feet of the ground we may be stuck!!!

Darren

Rob Hogenmiller · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 8:28 am Post subject: Shifter costs and the PMT

quote:
Originally posted by Doug Welch:
Did spectators head out to the hills to watch motocross? Not until it was brought into the arena did it take off
Doug

Doug that is far from the truth. Motocross was drawing spectators before the stadium explosion took off. They both grew together, but in the 70s motocross did have good attendance at outdoor events. Stadium racing has helped spark higher attendance at outdoor events thats for sure.

I totally agree though that the sport needs to be taken to the people.

Street races are beautiful for the sport. I certainly hope they start to charge to watch the races. Sure it's great for the fans and the local business. It is the race though that brings in all those dollars. In my opinion the drivers/teams/organization deserve some of those dollars also. Shoot even if it's a dollar a person that would have been $60,000 dollars over the weekend according to some of the attendance figures. Would make a nice purse and some income for the organization towards televising it also.

As for running before a Supercross, I don't believe AMA would be to keen on the idea.
Makes for a long day for a fan also. As Tim Pappas pointed out it's already too long from a fans perspective.

Support races for CART, Star Mazda, or USF2000, would make much more sense than support races for AMA motocross, in my opinion. Seems like the feedback for this possibility has been positive.

The potential for the sport to be a true Pro sport is there, it just needs to untie the shoe laces.

(Edit-Grammar)

[ July 26, 2001: Message edited by: Rob Hogenmiller ]

Russ McGrane · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 8:33 am Post subject: Shifter costs and the PMT

True motocross is not that popular compared to either supercross or arena cross. Why? Because for supercross or arena cross they bring the show to the people, in an environment that is comfortable (seats concessions, running water). Motocross asks the people to come to the perm tracks, which are dirty and not very comfortable (same as most kart tracks). If karting is going to be a viable show, we have to bring the race to the people.

[ July 26, 2001: Message edited by: Russ McGrane ]

Doug Welch · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 9:59 am Post subject: Shifter costs and the PMT

Rob

In the late 60's and early 70's, I use to ride motocross. Yes we had fans, but not really much more than what karting has now. At least in our neck of the woods. The tracks were out in the boondocks and not very fan friendly. Also we didn't go for big air. Big air (extreme) and bringing it into town is what caused the explosion.

Doug

Brad Fultz · Joined: 23 Jul 2001 Posts: 26 Location: Knoxville TN

Street race, People will come. I wish that some of the major racing orgnazations here in the states would help support a project to bring racing to the younger kids. Racing has the highest paid attendance in the USA than any other major sporting event, and we dont have a good feeder program like europe does, I watch a race and I cant understand a word the winner speaks anymore. I dont want anyone to think I picking on these other countries I am not, but I would like to wake up sometime in the next 10 years on a sunday morning flip on an F1 race and see a kid from the USA just qualify for a race. my .02
Thaks for the form guys.

Oscar Aguilera · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 1614

Everybody thrashed the guy that did the MOMO Grand Prix because of reasons that I do not personally know about. But the point is the Festival like atmosphere that has to go with the kart race to be a show. supercross has the Big air and many a bikes that are being sold as a package bike and motor. Watercross/Seadoo racing has the same. Watercross feeds on the beach and bikinis. Supercross feeds on the big jumps. In all honesty watching a perfectly set up kart is very boring. The driver makes very little movement and it seems effortless. Most people don't understand what that takes to get to that point. It has to go back to the MOMO grand Prix the spectacle around the race with booths, concessions etc. It would be great to have a site where public comes to see karting. Mexico does it every year in the street to get new karters involved at Monterrey. I think we need to consider doing an event in conjuction with the CART deals as well as locally with the small town festival or fair. That is what I am working on here in Houston.

Darren Swisher · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 7:26 pm Post subject: Shifter costs and the PMT

Oscar, There is local talk here of running a shifter street race around the Indy 500 or the F1 race. That would be very cool.

Darren

[ July 26, 2001: Message edited by: Darren Swisher ]

Dave Stevens · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 8:07 pm Post subject: Shifter costs and the PMT

quote:
Originally posted by Darren Swisher:
Oscar, There is local talk here of running a shifter street race around the Indy 500 or the F1 race. ]

That's where we need to focus, support for the events that the sport feeds. Karting doesn't feed MX, it feeds IRL , Champ Car and F1. There was a mention during the last F1 broadcast on Speedvision that said the reason the average age of F1 drivers was at an all time low was due to karting.

The pro ranks, like the SKUSA PMT will always be a feeder series. Young hotshoes will always dominate this series. Thery are on their way to the next rung. Us old guys, are also rans........

However, Pete Van G is right . In my words the future expansion of karting depends on "old fat guys"....errrr I mean mature, larger drivers, such as myself. We have the desire, we have the disposable income. We aren't going to be the guy Chip calls for the seat. He'll call Memo instead. We're OK with that, we do this for fun.

For most of us, US$10k/year is beer money.

The future is using the sport to develop new talent. How about a Rahal/Letterman, or Pac West kart team? It could happen. Meanwhile, the ones that really support the sport are the parents of the aspiring drivers, or the old men like me that like to race.

Dave

Arik McGruder · Joined: 24 Jul 2001 Posts: 7 Location: Syracuse, NY

quote:
Originally posted by Doug Welch:
Rob

In the late 60's and early 70's, I use to ride motocross. Yes we had fans, but not really much more than what karting has now. At least in our neck of the woods. The tracks were out in the boondocks and not very fan friendly. Also we didn't go for big air. Big air (extreme) and bringing it into town is what caused the explosion.

Doug

Doug, I believe Rob is talking about AMA motocross, not your local events. I've been going to some of the outdoor nationls (Unadilla, and Broome-Tioga) for years...These tracks are literally in between miles and miles of cornfields AND the fans are there each year. I also raced locally, and like you said, there are not too many fans--other than few friends and family that attend with the riders.

Arik

Charlie Tackett · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2001 12:25 pm Post subject: Shifter costs and the PMT

Sorry, Arik, but in the late '60s there was no such thing as "motocross" in this country. Motocross at that time was a Euro-thing. It wasn't until the early '70s with the ?Trans-Am series? brought over European racing was US rough scrambles transformed into motocross. At some of those early Trans-Am Motocross events, a couple of thousand was a *big* crowd....nothing like RedBud and others nowadays. Big time AMA racing back then was flat-tracking.