Daytona results?

Rob Morris · Joined: 24 May 2002 Posts: 190 Location: Herndon, VA

Glad to see Marc step in when he did. The good constructive criticism, (No matter how lengthy or obsessive), can be deemed admirable. A few have srong oppinions about what is important to the future of Unlimited-Superkart racing. STRONG opinions that seemed to be treated with respect from all sides until the trash was thrown in to ruin it all.
Beamer doesn't deserve the accusations he has recieved. Nor does anyone else who voices on this forum. The Dirt needs to be taken up offline.
Let's keep it clean so we don't get this 250 forum yanked!
Besides, it's still silly season and we need a place to go talk 250's. Wink

Frank Dawley · Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:36 pm Post subject:

Rob Forker has a list of all the 2005 road races in the US on his website.
_________________
2-G.P. Karts / 2-GFK TM K9B

Roger Miller · Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:28 pm Post subject:

USSC

April 8,9,10 Barber Motorsports Park - Birmingham, AL
June 10,11,12 Road America - Elkhart Lake, WI
July 29,30,31 Barber Motorsports Park - Birmingham, AL (w/ GrandAm Series)
October 7,8,9 Texas Motorsports Ranch - Ft. Worth, TX
***Note- you may drop 1 of the first 4 races***
November 11,12,13 Road Atlanta - Braselton, GA (National Championship)

WKA Dunlop Series

02/04/2005 Roebling Roads
03/18/2005 Carolina Motorsports Park
05/27/2005 Virginia Int'l Raceway (V.I.R.)
06/17/2005 Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course
07/22/2005 Summit Point Raceway
08/19/2005 Putnam Park Road Course
10/14/2005 New Hampshire Int'l Speedway
11/11/2005 Road Atlanta

Big South Road Racing Series

03/18/2005 Carolina Motorsports Park
04/08/2005 Barber Motorsports Park
05/14/2005 Talledega Gran Prix
09/10/2005 Talledega Gran Prix
11/11/2005 Road Atlanta

Who else should we see for the East?

Brian Wilhelm · Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:10 am Post subject: Road Atlanta

I was talking to Robby Harper last night and he said that the Road Atlanta date has been move to November 4-5-6.
_________________
Brian

Bernie Adamson · Joined: 20 Jun 2003 Posts: 3001

michael beamer · Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:21 pm Post subject:

I first would like to start this off by saying that I owe JR an apology.After 10 years of badly written rules in the unlimited class I have a hard time trusting some one I don't know writing rules that will probably shape this class into the future. I am guilty of mixing former WSK rules with what JR wrote for his series. I have been running this class for a long time and I know that what is accepted now will and should be accepted by WKA when the time comes with enough participants for a stand alone class.The rules should be universal among all the clubs so that crossover is not a problem.If anyone would actually read what I have said they would see that when I say unlimited it is a phrase that is opposite of spec. Once again this is not a laydown versus situp argument.Some people want to take a poloroid of an Anderson kart and freeze this class in that profile. 250 version of CIK 125. I have heard this expressed by some people at the track for the last year over and over.Spec rules . Just like the immediate response on this forum. Some people dont understand that to have a class you first have to figure out what is not.Steve Tillman I do understand what JRs kart is and you somehow think I am belittling it . That is not how I feel.I did not say one piece I said full body as opposed to an Anderson side pod style .His kart is the way this class should go.When I compare it to an Unlimited kart with a wing I am in no way disagreeing with it.I love it. I am guilty of looking at his kart while listening to spec spec spec for the last year.Listening to my ears instead of trusting my eyes. Although I have an unlimited twin 125 clutch kart that by the way when finished in a couple months will be an ICE style chassis not a laydown, I understand and accept the gearbox only format.I also have a Cr250 situp that with the addition of a wing could run this series or class structure.

If JRs rules are what this class will be : no real body rules, no seat rules, other then a width no real wing rules, I don't see where the laydown stops and the situp starts. If his intentions are to leave it as an open box class then that seems to be what I have been saying all along and there is enough openess in the rule structure to allow this class to develop just like Unlimited into whatever form it should be.

This series will shape the rules for years to come whether WKA or JRs. What he seems to have written is a long way from what most of the people on this forum think they are getting. This is unlimited 250 with a wing and not spec situp 250. If so then once again JR I appologize and I think you are the one to lead this class against the spec attitudes.

The transition of national classes is a touchy time, people have lots of time and money in their stuff and the way it is handled can effect alot of people who have been racing for years. You cant stop progress but you can shape its impact on people. I guess that is my biggest concern, this is supposed to be fun.

JR I would appreciate it if you would take the time to clarify your interpretation of the rules . What is the target design or description, in your opinion ,of a kart in your series. I am not the only one concerned with this I am just the most vocal. Maybe a mission statement would stop this sometimes pointless argument and clarify some of the misinterprtations of your rules. Including mine.

Chris R. maybe you should just accept that most people have 2 strokes and stop trying to fight the 2-stroke rules As you say the majority rules ! that was a joke Chris please dont berate me or hurt my feelings again you know how sensitive I am.

BEAMER

Roger Miller · Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:01 pm Post subject:

Bernie, no disprespect intended. I can only remember so much and not being back there, I just didn't get. There are probably a few others too right?

Bernie Adamson · Joined: 20 Jun 2003 Posts: 3001

Roger,
there was none taken. In fact i was talking to one of the guys named on that list as i was putting up the post and we were both laughing about it.

Nice to see some civility coming back into this debate.
Good luck to everyone for the upcoming season.
If you get a chance please visit us at either VIR for the WKA Grand National Event or at Summit Point in July for our Road Racers Memorial National Event.

Actually while im thinking about it, do any of you guys have an onboard video photoage that you could lend us to put up on our website at either Summit Point or VIR. We currently only have photage of a Sportman at summit and would like to extend our video database so that people can see what its like onboard a "Superkart"....How did Martin hines ever get away with that name Wink

www.Woodbridgekartclub.com
_________________
Bernie Adamson
WWW.USKGP.com

An excellent man; he has no enemies; and none of his friends like him.
Oscar Wilde

Roger Miller · Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject:

OK, so I used the "schedules" above, did the search a bit different and came up with these as well:

Championship Enduro Series (CES)

APRIL 15-17 @ Gateway International Raceway
MAY 13-15 @ Gingerman Raceway*
JUNE 10-12 @ Road America*
JULY 8-10 @ Grattan Raceway
AUGUST 5-7 @ Blackhawk Farms Raceway*
SEPTEMBER 23-25 @ Milwaukee Mile

MARRS - Mid-America Roade Race Series

04/17/2004 Gateway International Raceway
05/08/2004 Lake Afton
06/11/2004 Road America
07/17/2004 Lake Garnett
08/07/2004 Hallet Motor Racing Circuit
09/11/2004 Lake Afton
10/02/2004 Lake Garnett

Bill Kassy · Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:26 pm Post subject:

Just to let you know that the WKC Gearbox director has been watching this thread intently and I don't want to have to put you guys on probation before the season starts. Very Happy

I also have a question for you 4 stroke guys - do you guys run a shield or a cover over your motor to keep the parts contained when she let's go? Having seen some "holes" in a few of the cases, I am concerned about fluid and parts scattering onto the track or more importantly into the driver.

Thanks,
Bill Kassy
WKC guy...

J.R. Osborne · Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject:

Michael Beamer- Thank you for your last post, apology accepted. To answer your question, let me give you a little background of how we got to this point.

After J.R. Clasen and Wayne Rainey went their separate ways at the last Laguna event, there was a real concern on my part that we would not have a designated Superkart series to run in 2005. Without Laguna, Mr. Clasen was not able to financially justify promoting a series. I did not feel like running club races again, so I called some of my business contacts to see if they would be interested in helping fund a series.

With some money in place it would allow us to have guaranteed coverage from SKI, quality trophies, and some prize money; things that I as a racer would like to see in a series. A quorum of Johnny West, Firouz Haghigi, Jerry Echols, Rob Howden, Robbie Harpur, and myself worked on the race dates and rules. These guys were picked because they are consistantly at 250 events and have been in the sport for a long time.

The rules were taken from the WSK website and slightly modified to fit our series/needs to make a better championship. The biggest differences from the WSK and USSC are the fuel specs, weight, overall length, and points system. The intent is to keep with the same theme as the WSK has been promoting for the last several years.

The karts are 250cc gearbox machines with bodies that have a nose, sidepods, driver bubble, and rear wing. They are to be a longer wheelbase kart and not a sprint 125 chassis with a wing on it. The PVP, Anderson, P-1, Stockman, ADE, Zip, and Swift are all examples of the intent, but in their own unique way. It is not intended to be a spec engine/chassis class, that's for sprint racing. It was decided that a twin engine laydown clutch kart was not part of that intent.

My only selfish motivation to do this series is to ensure I have a series to run and enjoy. That's it. I'm not taking any of the $$$, it's all going back to the series. I'm sorry if I get mad at guys who don't like what I'm doing, but it's hard to have much patience when I'm giving my time and money to a sport because nobody else stepped up to do it.

I'll listen to anyone's concerns, but there are always compromises and not everyone will agree on decisions/rules made. I hope we can make decisions that the majority can support.

Thanks for your passion of the sport,

J.R. Osborne
_________________
Anderson/Gas Gas/P-1

michael beamer · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject:

Thank you JR for responding.Its funny that people who dont know me think that I am only running a laydown twin clutch kart. I built one to learn something because for fifteen years I had only shifted gears.I owned the second Rotax 257 engine in this country from Tony Murphy and I am really based on shifters. After I built the laydown it became clear that to be competitive it needed to be an ICE style kart that is what it is becoming with a new chassis.As to my 250 it is not a sprint kart and never was.It is narrower then an Anderson doesnt get through the corners as well but it gets up the straight pretty good.As I finish the twin I will probably make a new and wider chassis for my 250 , so at this point I do not own a laydown 250 / unlimited laydown kart.My objections are mainly against making this class similar to the CIK 125 class.Your kart reflects the more open design that I and other people would like. When I referred to selfish reasons I did not mean money I know there is no chance of that . I dont want to loose the ability to express some creativity in this class as that is alot of the fun. I want to make sure that intentions are clear and this class can grow into the future instead of still arguing 10 years later over seat angles and floorpans.I dont understand why this cant be done as a discussion among racers . It isnt a race if there is only a couple people there, we all need to help this class grow and become healthier then it is now.Thank you for your hard work and I hope these rules done correctly will be accepted by all of the organizations.

BEAMER

Rob Morris · Joined: 24 May 2002 Posts: 190 Location: Herndon, VA

Bill K, Those are my thoughts to. But, We are hoping that last year was the end of those kinds of catastrophies.
Last year the driver's Suit soaked up all the fluids pretty well. I'm glad you are the Gearbox director. I know you are rested and ready to go! Smile

Chris Reinhardt · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:42 pm Post subject:

Billy, does the WKA require a "scatter Shield/Diaper" for any of the Briggs classes?
Besides, every kart I have seen has a full belly pan and side pod to catch any of the misguided engine internals...
The AMA required a catching device be it the bodywork or some sort of "diaper" back in the late 90's, but those bike engines hold more than 3 quarts of oil, and our CRF's are about 800cc or less. It was more for the bikes without belly pans because they would just spill out on the track, and oil+motorcycle tire=bad things.
What safeties are there to keep 2-cycle fuel off the track? Diapers for the carbs?

Chris R.

CHRIS TAYLOR · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:51 pm Post subject:

Rob and Chris,

You guys have your block warmers plugged up during this cold weather. Those Peterbilt's are hard to start when it gets this damn cold. Andyes, I have plenty of bar oil for my chain saw Laughing