WKA 2005 Unlimited Rules

Gary Slahor · Joined: 05 Jun 2002 Posts: 49 Location: Baltimore, MD,USA

On the IC/E weight topic.......I think the issue boils down to the weight of the karts.

I'm your theoritecal average Joe @ 185 - 190 # and have to ADD 20# to my PVP to get above #460. My son is a skinney 145# and we have to ADD 45# of lead to his old (non adjustable front end) Anderson to get him above 460#.

It seems that most of the folks who have an issue with the weights (Domikis, Kiker, Gaynor, Taylor, Trimmer) are running an Anderson Maverick. They must be quite a heavy kart, because these guys aren't that much beefier than I am. I could afford to weigh over 200# and still come in close to 460# in my PVP.

Penalizing others because some choose to run a heavy kart isn't the answer.

Just my observation - although I've been crucified for having an opinion before.

Charlie Tackett · Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:15 pm Post subject:

At Road America, we did a weight survey....total weight as coming off the track, then driver weight only and kart weight only. In the ICE group, kart alone weicht ranged from 268lbs to 302lbs, with an average ICE kart weight of 284 lbs.

With and avg ICE kart at 284 lbs, that would put a 180lb driver right at 464 lbs.

Randy Domikis · Joined: 22 Jul 2002 Posts: 266

Michael ,

You mentioned the following:

"WKA 460LBS
MKC 460LBS
WKC 460LBS
Big South 460LBS
Badger 460LBS
and finally the best of all***************************************
WORLD SUPERKART 450 POUNDS so who exactly are you linking up to Randy it seems my facts are supported by everyone in North America maybe you were referring to another continent."

Well MKC, WKC, Big South and Badger all use WKA rules so I would agree with you. They are all at 460 lbs. As per JR, WSK has moved the weight for ICE to 465 and others are looking to follow.

Charlie,

I was not at Road America so I cannot comment on that event, but here are the average post race weights with drivers for the WKA Unlimited 1 and 2 Nationals at VIR and SPR:

SPR Unlimited 1 - Top 9 entries (514-463) with an average of 493 lbs.
(463,507,501,495,476,480,503,506,514)

SPR Unlimited 2 - Rained out

VIR Unlimited 1 - Top -7 entries (525-465) with an average of 503 lbs.
(465,483,509,505,525,516,522)

VIR Unlimited 2 - Top 10 entries (556-472) with an average of 499 lbs.
(497,490,512,556,472,474,481,481,510,523)

These are the official numbers in the official finishing orders.

In my opinion, these numbers support a review. That is all I am trying to say.

p.s. Michael, you mention WKC Enduro Series.....I am suprised that you did not mention the time limit change to 30 minutes. Seems like more of a sprint race instead of an enduro.

Buy hey, at least we will have written rules this year with some possible enforcement possible.

Randy Domikis

Charlie Tackett · Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:09 pm Post subject:

Point is, Randy, those weights alone are of questionable value. That is why at road America for the ICE and the wins, we weighed the karts separately.

Take one of your drivers weighing in at say 502lbs. Or range showed karts from 268 to 302lbs. Say this guy is in that 302 lb kart. That would put him at being a 200lb driver. Now put that 200lb driver in the kart at the other end of the scale, 268lbs and you al of a sudden got a guy weighing in at 468lbs!

That's why taking the kart weight separately, also, is importent. Also, how many of those were 4-stroke power plants??

michael beamer · Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:44 pm Post subject:

the 30 minute change for saturdays race is fine with me as long as the sunday race is left at 45 min.I've never been opposed to fair compromises as long as they are done in advance of the season with enough time to prepare for them.The rules are being printed for december with the tech manual due out soon.Lets look at the weight issue with a thorough approach this coming season as Charlie has demonstrated with an eye to making any changes for the following year. If all you are talking about is a 5lb increase to stay in line with WSK I dont think anybody is going to sweat that but a 30LB increase is a whole different matter.Iam objecting to woodbridge adding weight as a stand alone change at this late stage of the year.
As to the length of the race issue until more people are still running past the 15min mark I dont think it really matters,this has not been a stellar year in the history of this class.

Randy Domikis · Joined: 22 Jul 2002 Posts: 266

Charlie,

I am all for weighing the kart seperate from the driver. We may try to do that for 2005 to gather more information.

I know that the scales were right inline with my "like new" longacre scales that I use. They may both be off..... I wopuld find that hard to believe that they were both 'way' off, but.....

You asked about the 4 strokes:

SPR 1 - 1- 4 stroke 476

VIR1 - 2 4 strokes 509,522

VIR2 - 2 4 strokes 497, 522

If you average all three events across the board, the average is 498 Post race.

I think that we should just ask everyone who reads this to post a weight that they think the class should have. I know that everyone says that WKA did this, but lets just do it again for the heck of it. 2205 is done, this is good information for 2006 if WKA cares.

I will start it.

I think 480 is a reasonable weight that is middle of the road in my mind. This weight allows for a 180# driver and up to a 300# kart.

Please post the weight you would like to see.

Randy

Charlie Tackett · Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:33 pm Post subject:

A median kart weight of 284 and a 180 lb driver = 464lbs. bump it up to 470 lbs.

Clark Gaynor · Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:16 am Post subject:

Andy Kiker · Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:45 am Post subject:

The twins are at 490 so just run everyone at 490 Rolling Eyes

Charlie Tackett · Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:04 am Post subject:

The twin karts (kart alone) weighed on the average 23-24lbs more than an ICE. Rolling Eyes

Andy Kiker · Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:56 am Post subject:

yes but I weigh 23to24lbs. more than avg. Wink

John Rounds · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 76

Mr Ferreira,
The rules state "stock appearing" - for a 257 Rotax does that mean an aftermarket cylinder head is illegal?? The 257 Rotax engines have been suffering from cylinder cracking for a long time and "girdles" have been added to help prevent this problem. Others have designed new heads that incorporate a "girdle" that are relative inexpensive and are more "stock appearing" than a bolt on attachment. John Rounds

Rob Morris · Joined: 24 May 2002 Posts: 190 Location: Herndon, VA

I agree with Charlie, and we need the weight of the kart to reflect near empty tanks, like the end of a race. I weighed in at every national with 80% or more fuel, since I broke at about all of them. On a near empty tank, my thumper comes in about 495. I strap a cr250 on my chasis and I'm looking at 470-475lb.
I do agree with a unity of all the orginizations, on then same weight. If we need to bump the weights up 5lbs. for this, that sounds fine. but, adding 30lbs. to the class would be wrong. Especially if we only use a couple of the Nationals weight sheets to gather data.
To keep the integrity of the ICE set up, I think the weights should reflect more on the karts, with near empty fuel, not the driver. If I go out and gain 50lbs. tomorrow, I'm not going to go out and start lobbying a weight increase.
If all the weight data we can collect in 2005, (at all the Nationals), showes a different trend in weights, That could justify a weight adjustment to the class. I would suggest as much data nationwide though.
Besides, who will Jason Slayer get to help lift his Kart if we keep making him add weight!
Want to congrat Andy on his VICTORY at Laguna!

michael beamer · Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:13 pm Post subject: ANDY KIKERS HEAD

Andy doesn't count in this weight issue, with all the wins he has accumulated the last couple of years his head alone must weigh at least 75LBS hardly an average head. Congrats Andy for showing them what the EAST coast is all about.

Randy Domikis · Joined: 22 Jul 2002 Posts: 266

All,

I gave you all a sample of weights from a few nationals, but I also have reviewed our regionals and a few other nationals during 2004 and the results are all within 10 pounds or so. I would say that 4-5 different races with a total of 50-60 different results with the same general results from the scales would be a fair amount of data to review.

The point of this thread is to ask peoples opinions about weights in the class. 460 seems light to me, What is the right weight? 470,475,480,490 ???? Who knows, but when the averages show a number much higher than the 460, we should discuss it.

Rob mentioned that if he gained 50 lbs that he would not lobby for a weight gain, I agree with him, but..... The weight of the driver has got to come into play somehow. This is not europe and we do not have many 135# drivers in the class so the european weights may not be useful. I think that a 180# weight for an average driver seems ok, so the rest should rest with the karts themselves like Charlie said. We should then average the kart weights and come up with a average number to work with.

With this said, a driver that weighs 135#'s would have to add 45# just to meet the average driver weight.

a 190# driver would be at a 10# disadvantage.

We are still looking for more weights from other competitors........

Randy