Front brakes...

[Debbie Kuntze]

Doesn't have to be a bowl. Willow Springs and Streets of Willow are as much out in the boonies and nothing but desert and weeds to hit, except:

Turn nine at Willow, you come off to head up the front stratight, and there is the pit wall. Streets, come off the skid pad and head up the front, there is the chain link fence in lieu of a pit wall (concrete wall is farther back).

Now neither place is where you would normally use any braking, especially in a sit-up, but there are times when somehting happens and you need to get stopped and stopped before that wall comes up to your front bumper. Standing at the start finish line I have seen the wide eyes of karters many times in that situation.

Actually, while thinking about it, I don't know of a road course with out some sort of hard object to hit coming off the last turn onto a straight if things don't go right.


_________________
Debbie Kuntze
kart9899@aol.com
www.uskgp.com

[Bob Ogden]

Too many "Ifs" to count. As one person I talked to on Sunday said, if you increase the required pedal pressure to the point where the pedal breaks or comes off, then fronts don't do a bit of good.
The whole point is the a class has been created to allow budget minded individuals to race at a competitive level. First the NorCal engine builders couldn't keep their hands out of it, so we drive up the cost of running a Leopard by blueprinting. Then SKUSA steps in and makes a pro class for TaG, so people cherry pick engines. Now front brakes.
How about we just create a class for everyone's individual wants and then we can watch 25 classes with the same engine and 3 karts in each class. OOPS, we have that formula already...It's called Yamaha.
I'll truly believe, as I've said before, if the front brake crowd is that interested in safety and not just having the trick setup, then put fronts on ICA, and all karts over 50cc.

[Mitch Gillick]

There's nothing to hit at Thunderhill Park Raceway... At least, not because of a brake failure. It would have to be tires hitting tires or a blowout, for any type of an obstacle to come into play at Thunderhill.

nckroadracing.com/race_tracks/thunderhill_park_raceway.html

At least a half dozen karts have slammed into the K-wall at Reno-Fernley, over the past two race days... But, none of the incidences had anything to do with brakes. With the addition of the extra mile (track is currently closed for paving), the K-wall will no longer be an issue.

nckroadracing.com/race_tracks/reno_fernley_raceway.html

Then there is Infineon - Sears Point Raceway (2.52-mile ALMS config)... I must admit that there are several places that a person would not want to have a brake failure, at this track. Having said that, Dave Salo won the NCK 80cc Sprint class (no front brakes allowed) at Sears Point - November 2002... And, he ran that last half of the second heat with seriously ailing brakes (ailing, as in... not using the brakes at all, except in a panic situation), against 25 other competitors in that class.

nckroadracing.com/photo_gallery/infineon/nck_event-map.html

Worth mentioning is the fact that over the past several NCK road race seasons, the NCK 80cc Sprint class (no front brakes / no programmable ignition / YDS tires) has had far more entries than any other road race class (2003 - over 60% more entries than the next closest class). But, in April 2004, for the first time in years, there was another class that had more entries than the hard tire 80cc shifter class... It was the TaG class (no front brakes / spec engine).

Actions speak louder than words. The fact is, racers are voting with their pocket books. And, with few exceptions, if they wanted to run front brakes, they would purchase a kart and run in a class that already requires or allows front brakes.

[Chad Stapleton]

There seem to be several different issues debated here.:-
Front brakes for TaG
Brake pad wear rate
Dual circuit Brakes/Brake failure
Circuit safety

Several of these are interrelated, but not all of them.
Brakes are only needed when the kart is moving (obvious !) and it follows that the faster the kart moves, the more relavent/critical brakes become.
Faster racing (road tracks) should therefore be regarded separately to the lower (maximum) speed, sprint track classes. Lets not confuse the TaG sprint brake discussion with road racing demands.
I would suggest that the most common incident requireing "emergency" (unplanned / panic ) braking , is when another kart does something unexpected infront of you - spins, seizes, wrecks etc - and those situations can occure on any type of track ( but possibly at higher speeds on road tracks).
_________________
Chad
"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do !!"

[Richard Haight]

I think that Chad is right on those subject. The one thing that may have been given less weight, is that karts are no longer necessarily "Lower speed".

Although "Sprint" karts traditionally have "Relatively" lower speeds then Road-racing, the fact is that many sprint karts are capable of over 75-85 miles per hour on some sprint tracks. Moran, for instance, is nearly a mile in length. At that length, 28 HP TAG karts can approach 80MPH(?).

Unlike some road race courses, as someone mentioned earlier, sprint tracks tend to have both hazards and spectators MUCH closer. What was once sufficient run off, is, to be brutally honest, really not sufficient any longer, as speeds increase.

Yes, with all things going right, rear brakes "Can" be sufficient.... But there are times when they may be inadequate. I am not calling for them to be made mandatory, but if they were allowed, it also wouldn't bother me.

Yes, they can add to the cost, but I think that those who complain that the idea is to keep it economical, and having front brakes would make it "Un-economical" are over-stating their case. If the cost is an issue, and I have no doubt that it is, as I have stated, there are many near-new, one year old chassis's available for less then the price of a new rear-brake chassis.

As has also been stated in other threads, while keeping the cost down is important, it is not the responsibility of the sanctioning bodies to make sure it is so inexpensive that virtually anyone can race.

There are always going to be some people who can't afford it, and we can't play exclusively to that crowd. Racing costs money, regardless if it is Kart racing.

I have seen complete karts, ready to run, in various KT100 and HPV classes, for less then $2,000. How much cheaper does it have to be?

[Chad Stapleton]

[Charles Pou]

The best I can tell, for TAG you need front brakes on a sprint track (brakes wear out quickly), but nobody wants them, cause they are slower.

For TAG you don't need front brakes road racing (brakes last forever), but some want them for safety.

IMO the oft mentioned profile of the TAG racer conflicts with front brakes, because front brakes are more $'s, more work, something else to check/ go wrong. You may find out 1st hand what I mean, if you buy a used up shifter kart with worn-out brakes.

I have never run front brakes, but have been around enough racers that do, and they just seemed like a lot of trouble to me. The fact karts are so simple is a big attraction for me. Front brakes are an added complication I do not want.

In conclusion, IMO we may be doomed to do the Yamaha thing with TAG.