 |
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Chad Stapleton
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 4403
|
 Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:18 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| John Denman wrote: | | ......When I first contacted Achille in December 2001 about the Italsis ML47 that was then in development he gave me information that led me to believe it was coming out with a digital ignition with a 36 mm carb. Further correspondence continued to indicate that the intended design would produce a 44KW motor (33HP)....... |
Wow John, that would have been one hell of a motor at 44Kw !!
( 44Kw is actually 59bhp nearly !)
As i remember, the Italsistem site used to list the ML47H(digital / 34mm etc) at "over 40bhp" but that rating has since been removed for some reason ? 
_________________
Chad
"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do !!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Jim Durrell
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 176
Location: United States, Missouri, Grain Valley
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ya know, it's kind of funny, about this time last year the big debate was whether or not there would be a TAG and what it would do to Rotax. They both look healthy to me. 
Hey, if you guys want to "debate" something, look at the Jr. weights. The real surprise is that the Jr. Rotax isn't listed. Did I miss something?
Ahhh, the snow is finally starting to melt, peace will be coming over the karting world again. 
Jim |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jon Andrews
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 256
Location: United States, Ohio,
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jim Durrell wrote: | Hey, if you guys want to "debate" something, look at the Jr. weights. The real surprise is that the Jr. Rotax isn't listed. Did I miss something?
Jim |
I think the reason why the Rotax Jnr and Lepoard Jnr are not listed is because they will use a different engine. In the case of the Rotax a 22hp non-RAVE valve version, and the Leopard Jnr is actually a 'Lynx' (100cc version of the Leopard). All the others use the same engine for senior and junior.
Jon.
_________________
KRT Tracker |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jon Andrews
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 256
Location: United States, Ohio,
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Chad Stapleton wrote: | | John Denman wrote: | | ......When I first contacted Achille in December 2001 about the Italsis ML47 that was then in development he gave me information that led me to believe it was coming out with a digital ignition with a 36 mm carb. Further correspondence continued to indicate that the intended design would produce a 44KW motor (33HP)....... |
Wow John, that would have been one hell of a motor at 44Kw !!
( 44Kw is actually 59bhp nearly !)
As i remember, the Italsistem site used to list the ML47H(digital / 34mm etc) at "over 40bhp" but that rating has since been removed for some reason ? |
Chad,
The Italsistem website never did contain very accurate information about the ML47H engine, particularly concerning the US spec version. I never saw the 24mm carb or any of the details about it until the engine arrived on my doorstep. The engine was only ever shown on the website with a Dellorto (this spec was never intended for the US market).
The "over 40hp" was just speculation/marketing hype during the pre-production phase I'm sure.
Jon.
_________________
KRT Tracker |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jon Andrews
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 256
Location: United States, Ohio,
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Brad Linkus wrote: | | I have a few things to say about the weights and testing. First, I believe that Marty has done his best to get all of the engine importers and engines that importers would not provide together on this project. He has put in alot of effort in a short period time under pressure from everyone with many things unexpected happening at the last minute go wrong do you know what I mean? Thanks! |
I think all TAG participants are thankful for TAGUSA and SKUSA working together to come up with a common set of rules at such short notice.
| Quote: | | There were three runs done on each engine. I did see the results of the testing and was surprised that most of the engines were very close in HP, within 1-1.2. |
Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment. Are you saying that the lowest to highest whp (wheel HP) was 1-1.2HP? Further down in your post you state that the Easykart was 24-25HP and the 'Sonik's & Roc were in the 27's. Isn't that a spread more like 2-4hp
| Quote: | | I did not see the results of the Italsistem but if it has the power stated it should have more weight added for the digital Ign. |
That's the issue, the power stated means squat. The Rotax is stated at 28hp but produces 26whp on the dyno. Isn't it therefore possible that the Italsistem's stated 31hp is actually 28-29whp on the dyno?
| Quote: | | If the digital ign engine has 31 hp it should not weigh the same as the Sonik, Comer and Biland in Master. |
I agree, in digital trim it is highly likely it produces more power than the Sonik, Comer, Biland therefore is should carry more weight. But why not apply the 'more weight' handicap in the senior class as well instead of just exceluding it entirely?
| Quote: | | It is up to Marty to release the results, he probably does not want to open that can of worms but I would If I was him just to get the brain damage over with. |
I think you have provided much of the information many are asking for. I would kindly request that as soon as possible you could review the complete results and add the dyno resuts from both the analogue and digital ignition versions of the Italsistem. This would provide a complete picture of the situation. I'm sure that as the representative for the Biland you have a close working relationship with Marty and can get the information fairly easily.
| Quote: | | I would hope that they would be quick to make any adjustments and not wait for three races and piss everyone off if the weights they pick are a mile off. I do not know how they came up with the weights from the data I read. |
Same question;
How can the Italsistem be correctly assessed for weight in those first few races when I is excluded from the senior class?
We can go round and round on whether the weights are right or wrong. As many have stated maybe we should forget about the testing, race and then make adjustments along the way as required. I am in complete 100% agreement with the approach except one engine is not being allowed to run and be assessed with all the others even before the season has begun. To me that's the real issue.
Jon.
_________________
KRT Tracker |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe Woronka
Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 525
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Jon
I don't have exact numbers but let me state the analog ignition falls right inline hp wise with the Comar, Biland, Sonik, and ROK. The digital ignition pulled about 1 more hp.
After I get back from KMI I'll e-mail with my full understanding.
Thanks,
Joe Woronka
_________________
JW's Eurotech Racing
"Driving fast is like sex, all men think they are good at it." Jay Leno |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tim finley
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 241
Location: United States, Arizona,
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joesph,
It is a KGB with front brakes. The brakes add 10 pounds. My other kgb weighs about 184 without front brakes. I beleive with the battery/start box the engine package is not as light as some would think. When we had the CRS shifter package on the chassis it weight 205 which from what I understand is pretty standard for a shifter. Also, when you put the front brakes on you change the whole assembly in the front. I use 40mm hubs for quick setup adjustments . All these thing add up quick 
_________________
KGB/motori/#77 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim Durrell
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 176
Location: United States, Missouri, Grain Valley
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Since this can of worms is already open, let me throw this out there. I realize that this would be an interesting point to bring up in the discussions about the weight, but I'm really tired of the whining so I won't.
IF you look on the TAG USA website, section 1.0 gives all of the information on the International classes that you are discussing here. If you really want to get all the way into this discussion, go to section 10.0. This is the section that lists ALL of the classes. 10.1, 10.2, and 10.3 are the TAG International classes. Immediately below that you will see sections 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, and 10.8. These are the TAG USA National classes.
TAG USA - National Class Program - Club / Regional / National FESTIVAL
10.4. Class 4 TAG USA SENIOR
Age............. 16 years of age and older
Engine........ As per Section 1
Weight........ As per Section 1
10.5. Class 5 TAG USA HEAVY
Age............. 16 years of age and older
Engine........ As per Section 1
Weight........ Add 30 Ibs. per Section 1
10.6. Class 6 TAG USA MASTERS
Age............. 35 years of age and older
Engine........ As per Section 1
Weight........ As per Section 1
10.7. Class 7 TAG USA CADET*
Age............. 8 to 11 years of age
Engine........ 60 ec TBA
Weight......... 260 Ib.
10.8. Class 8 TAG USA JUNIOR
Age.............. 12 to 15 years of age
Engine.........125cc with prescribed restrictions
Weight......... As per Section 1
Throw this into the mix and see how it fits. I haven't seen any discussion at all on the ML47H in the Heavy class. Which ignition is this class going to use?
Have fun,
Jim Durrell
Jon,
The Jr. class will be a restricted Leopard rather than the Lynx and still no Rotax. Interesting. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Go Top
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Login to check your private messages
Login
