Oil ratio

Jordan Chong · Joined: 09 Feb 2004 Posts: 34 Location: Jamaica, Kingston,

We have been using 8oz of redline to a gallon of fuel, mostly because every one at the track and on this forum says so.
I was just looking through my Yamaha manual and noticed that they recommend a 25-1 ratio where as 8oz is a 16-1 ratio (well thats what my math teacher says)
What's the deal here guys, I need to know
by the way, is it true that Burris castor oil is better than redline?
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Jamaica Karting Association
Rotax International #88

Joe Brittin · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 pm Post subject: Red Line Ratio

Stick with 7 to 8 ounces/gallon for Red Line. Red Line will burn
much cleaner since it is a synthetic oil compared to castor. Castor works
fine, but you will have more carbon build-up on your head, piston
and exhaust ports.

Rob Linders · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 725

Pete Muller will probably chime in here. Pete and others in the know like him have done a vast amount of testing. It seems that Castor Oil is better than synthetic in protecting these Yamaha's. Also it seems that the more oil you add to a gallon the more power it makes. I think they recommend 8 oz to 1 gallon but I believe Pete said you can even add more until you start fouling your plug and get slightly more power. I've been running 8 oz to a gallon.

Robert Wilson · Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 86

Wow. This is very interesting, seeeing that I was told to use 50:1 when I bought my kart. Can someone please enlighten me on this? I'm running a CR125.

Mike Goebel · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:36 am Post subject:

Ed Watts · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:20 am Post subject:

I use 4oz Motul to 1 gal. Sunoco 112 on my CR125. no probs all year.

John Kuntze · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:40 am Post subject:

I have used the Burris oil for over 10 years and never had a problem. I ran Redline once only because it was the spec oil and had 2 lower ends go that day it did a poor job of lubricating.
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Matt Gaskins · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:52 am Post subject:

I run the Redline 2-Cycle racing oil and have had zero problems. My engine looked great @ the end of the season... With little carbon build up....

Noah Stark · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:09 am Post subject:

I have run Redline, Klotz, and Royal Purple in both my kt100 and yz125 shifter. I like the royal Purple's ability to keep things clean, the Redline's good all around and the klotz just flat out sucks. I have tried mixing castor with both the redline and royal purple to see little or difference. I always ran 8oz/ gallon in the kt100. I now run between 7 and 8oz/gallon(Royal Purple) in my 125 and the only problems i have had was broken parts inside(circlip...) and no sticks.....My bottom end has 2 years on crank, and 1 year on bearings, and it all looks brand new!!!! I live and die by Royal Purple products(premix, gearoil, Purple Ice(like water wetter) great stuff!!
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RIP my friend:Paul Dana you will be missed by many

Chris Hill · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:25 pm Post subject:

Just something to consider...

1. Increasing amount of oil in fuel/oil mixture lowers the effective octane rating of the fuel your using. Since we can't change timing, changing fuel/oil mix may an affect of changing the timing.

2. Increasing amount of oil in fuel/oil mixutre leans out the engine with similar carb settings.

3. I don't think synthetic oil burns, so synthetic oil making more power by burning it I don't think is a fair assumption.

Tim Doll · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:39 pm Post subject:

I'm a little surprised Pete Muller hasn't chimed in by now - this is one of his hot button subjects, but perhaps he is busy doing actual work Smile

.

I've been around karting for 25 years, and without exception, every experienced motor builder I've asked has recommended castor, at ratios of between 7 and 9 ounces per gallon (depending mainly on the engine type). Synthetic oils do have some advantages, principle being they tend to burn cleaner than castor (less deposits), and they tend to mix more readily with various fuels relative to castor (this is especially true when running alcohol, but can be an issue with some racing gasoline at lower temperatures).

But I've NEVER heard a knowledgeable engine builder claim that a synthetic lubricated as well or better than castor.

A Yamaha will tend to be happier at the lower end of the 7 to 9 ounce/gallon range - more oil is still better, but a relatively low compression engine such as a Yamaha will build more deposits, especially if run overly rich, with more oil.

BTW, ANY oil will burn under the right conditions. Some synthetics burn at higher temperatures relative to castor and other 'natural' oils, but at the conditions in the combustion chamber - several hundred PSI pressure and 2500 - 3000 degrees F temperature - oil will burn just fine. Gasoline tends to combust easier than oil, so in a fuel rich condition, the gas will tend to burn before the oil, but make no mistake, the oil in your fuel does burn.

Since gasoline as a higher 'heating value' than oil (i.e. it contains more energy), I've never believed that the oil burning was the reason that engines produced more power with more oil. Rather, I've always assumed that it had to do with better ring sealing/higher compression with more oil.

Tim
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Pete Muller · Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:54 am Post subject:

I think Tim pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I have tested numerous times (usually KT100) adding oil until the engine wouldn't run any more, and as long as the engine is running clean (no plug fouling), more oil is faster. It's obviously messy (especially with something Castrol R40), but it is faster.

My own personal preference is castor oil no matter what the engine/condition/situation. The mess of castor doesn't matter to me... I simply want the best performance and best lubrication. Someday a synthetic may come along that does the job like castor (or maybe better), but in 30 years of racing, I have yet to see it.

sidenote--------
Think about this one...

Most people would agree that something like 8oz or 10oz of castor oil per gallon of gasoline is quite a bit, right?

Well... years ago, I ran 8oz of castor per gallon of methanol in an open engine. To put that in perspective... a KT100 burns something like 2¾ gallons of gas/oil mix in an hour. A good 100cc open engine will burn 6+ gallons of alky/oil mix per hour.

How much oil is going through that open engine in an hour versus the Yamaha?

Probably around 2½ times as much!
end sidenote--------

================

Oh.... and Tim; I have been working! LOL ... it's a busy time of the season for me.
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Joe Brittin · Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:36 pm Post subject: Red Line runs cooler and cleaner

Jordan,

You did not say what pipe you are using with the Yamaha,
but if you are running a can (SSX) I would still stay with
Red Line. It is more than adequate and you will not have
to spend time cleaning carbon deposits off of your piston
and head and not have to worry about passing tech as your
cylinder head volume decreases with the carbon deposits.
The guys on this thread who are using castor are very
experienced engine builders who probably like to tear their
motors down and clean them up. I prefer to bolt my engine
on and not have to take it apart until it goes back for a rebuild.
I have used castor in the past, and have failed CC tech inspections.
I also have never stuck a can Yamaha motor while using Red Line.
I have heard rumors that some of the hot dogs run very aggressive
castor mixtures (12 oz/gal ?) for endurance racing to gain HP.
Pete, can you chime in on that rumor?

Jordan Chong · Joined: 09 Feb 2004 Posts: 34 Location: Jamaica, Kingston,

Hi Joe
We are using an HLV L-2 pipe
The red line oil seems to be working for us pretty good so far, but since I have just started, my Dad says he has not tried tuning the carb until I improve fully, so we have not put too much stress on running the engine.
Secondly, we have to wait till we get our mycron so we can monitor engine temp as well.
By the way, what about other 2-cycle oil such as those used in chainsaws (Stihl 2-cycle oil)?
_________________
JT
Jamaica Karting Association
Rotax International #88

Chris Hill · Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:42 pm Post subject:

Pete,

Why does the added oil help? My guess would be more frictional related than combustion. As you add the oil, how does the BSFC change?