Which will be the motor to have?

Howie Idelson · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:57 pm Post subject:

I never said that!
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Howie Idelson
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Axel Korn · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:30 am Post subject:

I don't think there is a Monday that goes by where someone in a Superbox, Sportsman, FY, HPV, shifter, etc. believes they got beat by horsepower and rightfully that sometimes is the case.

Peter Wakamatsu · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:47 am Post subject:

Why are kart racers obsessed with horsepower? If someone is walking away from everyone else in a TAG event, it should be rather obvious that something is amiss. A solution would be to do a tear down on his engine. That's what they do in short track racing--it's more as a deterent than anything else.

Or, run the race under "claimer" rules--yup, let that last place guy claim the winning engine. Now if everyone is on the level, then all that guy would get at most is a fresh engine.

And how does one managed to hide mods to engines that don't even put out 30 hp? To make a significant difference in performance (increasing power 10-20%) wouldn't any mods be easy to detect?

And even if they weren't detected, wouldn't it be obvious to everyone else that the guy was cheating? This isn't professional racing like the old days of NASCAR--there isn't any financial gain at stake. The concept of TAG is stock out of the box, period. If you want to modify go run something else.

Lots of sporting activities rely on peer pressure and the honor system to work. Motor racing seems to attract and bring out the worst in people. This is the only thing that can destroy TAG.

Let the cheaters take home the $30 trophy. Let the guy think that he's Juan Fangio.

Scott Lane · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:06 am Post subject:

I'm going to have to side with Patrick on this one. I've been involved in karting since 1977 in some form or fashion, and this issue of "run what you brung" always starts with folks wanting to just have a friendly race amongst buddies. What it turns out to be is that one of your buddies has a fast motor setup and starts abusing you at the track. Then buddy #2 gets a similar motor setup and is second in the points chase. You want to guess what happens next?

What happens when a TAG manufacturer comes out with the "new and improved" version of their motor next year? Are you going to upgrade? Content to run your inferior (read slow) equipment?

There should be a place for "arrive and drive" types that want track time and to scare themselves silly. Heck, I like to scare myself silly. But there is a difference between a driver and a racer. In a sense, we all start out as drivers. Just being on the track and passing and getting passed is a great thrill. But after a while, its really just driving around the track.

A racer craves the competition and challenge. The thrill of the being competitive or winning. The satisfaction of doing the best that your ability and equipment will allow. If you stay in kart racing, most likely your going to become a racer.

All that Lombardi stuff I wrote above is to make an important point, which is the same point that Hubbell made. A racing class that does not adequately regulate a speed variable (chassis, motor, weight) will not be fair and will not survive or thrive. It's no different than letting someone that doesn't meet minimum weight run in your class. No different than letting someone run an illegal tires in your class. If equipment inequalities does not bother you, then TAG will be the perfect class for you.

The very fact that there is so much discussion on "Which TAG motor should I buy?" tells me that after the season is over, there will be quite a few folks that will feel that their package is inherently flawed, which could be true. How does it benefit karting when a racing package that someone spends 5k for isn't good enough to win because they made the wrong decision on which motor package to buy. I want TAG to prosper, but unless the sanctioning bodies get some substantive rules (not weight breaks, see http://www.ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=22365&start=15) that controls this class, I am not hopeful for the outcome.

Scott

Bob Ogden · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:40 am Post subject:

I think it's strange that some get on the 2 cycle forum or others and say engine is the "LAST" thing to change when looking for speed, yet on this forum say the motor is going to make the biggest difference. So what I'm hearing is if I have one of the multitude of flavors of Yamaha, I should:
1. Learn to drive
2. Learn chassis setup
3. Get my motor blueprinted and buy a good selection of pipes for each of the various tracks I wish to run.
If I choose to buy a Leopard and am not competitive the same person tells me I should:
1. Buy a Sonik
2. Buy a ROK
3. Buy a ItalSystems
ETC.
I think I'll skip that advice and
1. Learn to drive
2. Learn chassis setup
3. Not worry about some guy that comes to a club race with some $5000 hand grenade to get his rocks off beating up on budget racers.

I'm still racing against MY peers, and I'll get up on Monday morning, go to work, and think about the things that enable me to go out on the weekend and compete against my peers, and staying within my budget.

joseph hollinger · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:59 am Post subject:

If you've been involved in karting for more than a couple of minutes,
you understand how much of the "stuff you have to have to win" is
really just stuff that's "nice to have." Buying all the latest, fastest,
most hyped gear is a great way to drain your bank account. But it's
certainly not the way to get to the front of the pack. If it was,
you'd never see greasy old firetrap karts winning races. Which
is something we've all seen. In fact, a lot of us who routinely buy
all the coolest stuff (I'll admit to this) are routinely crushed by people
with half the gear (and presumably twice the bank account). So,
I bought a Leopard. And it's going to take a lot of pretty overt
evidence that it sucks before anyone hears me whining about it.

Chi-Hwa Ting · Joined: 12 Nov 2003 Posts: 10

Peter Wakamatsu · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:33 pm Post subject:

Marty Troup · Joined: 03 Jan 2003 Posts: 197 Location: Canada, Monteral,

hello Peter
Relax you have the right outlook!!!
Race to have fun Thats the beauty of karting...

No matter what you do in life their is always cheater and dumb *****
that mess things up for a SHORT while till they are schooled.

I would love to race with you and have the fun of swithching karts and stories after that what the sprit of karting is for...

For the...well not in the fun of it when you beat your friends while lying about cheating you must feel like the scum on YOUR shoe not mine from a porn shops peep show...

We are in this sport to get the rush and thrill from speed and beating your last time and hope that its faster than anyone else

Its your time so spend it smiling

Life in my karts seat is ten fold better than in a 250k car in traffic

Rob Martin · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:42 pm Post subject:

Peter,
Don't get discouraged about the forum.

Your opinions are welcome although you may occassionally be attacked over a difference of opinion.

The good news is that many of the high dollar, horsepower buying, big ego drivers end up moving to "real cars" after a brief foray into karting.

Big ego, big budget, small penis (sorry girls) drivers usually need more ego stroking and publicity than your average karting event can supply.

Some drivers will win regardless of their budget.
Other drivers will never win regardless of their budget.

Pick a motor package.
Follow the rules.
Meet some like minded racing friends.
Build some racing memories that bring a smile to your face in the years to come.

Peter Wakamatsu · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:01 pm Post subject:

Ken Rothenberg · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:45 pm Post subject:

Sticks and stones.....whew!!! Rolling Eyes

Mike Goebel · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:36 pm Post subject:

Lance Keelan · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:59 pm Post subject:

Being brand new to karting and the TaG concept I find all this very interestng.

In fact defining a class just by the fact that it has a starter seems fairly inconsequential.

Having the ability to practice and race without a buddy to start your kart is good and important. But isn't this all really about having a "spec" class?

Spec meaning a tagged engine to keep motors as close as possible and focus on driving skill.

Spec meaning keeping budgets low and fun high.

Spec meaning a class for us weekend warriors.

Spec meaning it caters to all tastes whether you're just having fun, want to be competitive or just go fast or all three.

Spec meaning you don't have to be a part time mechanic or spend money on tools to keep your kart running.

To me it's very simple....you have Spec classes and non-Spec classes

Weekend warriors like myself will probably always run the spec classes and the drivers looking for a career in racing will run the non-spec classes.

Many argue that they want to save money by doing work on their own engines. Well you can't have your cake and eat it too!!! Some say it cost more in the long run if you can't do your own engine work...I don't buy it. If you do you own work then the engines keep getting faster and faster, then they blow up more often, etc. etc. Is it a little more money to get my spec engine rebuilt?...probably. But that's a small price to pay to keep the integrity of the spec class in place.....starter button or not.