Current IKF Road Race Proposals

[Rhonda Mims-Brown]

I have stood back and watched the post regarding "IKF proposals" started by Deb Harper in relation to the road race proposals for a while now and feel it is time to air my opinions on the RR proposals as posted in Karter News and on the actual proposal system.

I agree with Deb and her analogy of dropping classes in road race. IMO, this would be a BIG mistake, particularly the classes which are on the hot list. There is no real need to drop 99.9% of the classes in road race if certain conditions are met. First, cut all one-hour classes back to 45 minutes and combine some of the classes to run in race groups at the nationals as being done on a regional level. These are concessions in which all road racers need to make in order to keep the program alive.

BUT, do we JUST want to keep the program alive, or do we want to TAKE STEPS TO HELP IT GROW? I personally want to see it grow and feel there are steps we can also take to achieve this. Wayne and I have done a great deal of research among all the organizations and have taken a look at what DOES work and what DOESN'T.

What DOES work is giving people the opportunity of having at least two places to race on a regional and national level. What DOES work is maintaining a uniformity among organizations in basic structure, for example, the elimination of slippy pipes and going to a fixed pipe (not spec) for some Yamaha classes.

What DOES NOT work is the current proposal system or the process of elimination or addition of new classes at least from a Road Race point of view. It's great to have written input from the members, but historically, a very SMALL percentage of racers take the time to write in their opinions, thus making it impossible for BOD's to base their decisions soley on this small percentage. I truly believe the Board and committee members are out in the field at the races talking to people and absorbing the bulk of feedback at the track. I make my decisions based on this as well as what people say on the internet, in their letters and by taking a look at what WORKS in other organizations and why.

Proof of this is would be to take a look at participation numbers on the east coast in road racing. The east coast racers are running a TON of classes with MEGA participation and their key is the in the combination of classes and giving people at least two places to race.

Wayne and I have come up with a class structure and schedule which we feel would help keep it alive and give an opportunity for GROWTH which is being looked at and considered by the road race committee.

What will hold road racing back? In our opinion, it would be taking a stance based on the current rules system in place. Specifically 101.3.4. I'm sure this system was put in place with all good intentions. HOWEVER, in the circumstance of RR AT THIS POINT IN TIME, it would not be beneficial to the growth or road racers. Sometimes, I feel, we can have our head so deep into following SOME of the specific rules that we totally miss the boat of opportunity for what's best and what the majority of people feel is best. I sincerely hope we could get a vote of 8 members of the board to override the normal procedures to add, delete or replace classes as indicated in the rule book. I sincerely HOPE, we can view things from a business standpoint and make good, solid business decisions to allow growth opportunities.

Wayne and I have recommended a total of 26 classes for 2002 based on our analysis and these additions have been applauded by the many of the most experienced people in road racing today. All 26 classes are strategically placed in a workable schedule and many of the new additions are classes which are the most popular regional and local option classes run across the country. In addition, we have taken consideration of promoter concerns with additional trophy purchases and numerous other feasibility aspects and have provided solutions and rationale. Our recommendations have been thoroughly researched, prepared and consulted.

There are SOME items within the overall structure, i.e., fixed pipes, shifter heat format, and weights which present opportunity for discussion (or argument). Wayne or I do not personally agree with all of them; however, we have included them because this is based on the feedback of regional recommendations. Any or all of these situations can be resolved and none of them should affect the basis for the class additions or scheduling.

I DO NOT speak out in any official capacity for IKF. I speak as a member of IKF out of my concern for the road racing program. We stepped in NOT for any type of power play or popularity contest, we've stepped in to TRY TO HELP a situation which we felt was not in the best interest of our division and could not sit back and watch the current proposal go through without at least trying.

As always, we have the utmost respect for our fellow racers, promoters and the IKF BOD. We are only trying to improve the situation and trying to get things moving in a forward direction.

Lastly, thank you, Deb Harpur for your obvious concern and attempts to interact among racers in an effort to do the right thing. You do a great job in staying on top of things and I feel you are doing an excellent job for IKF. I am glad I voted for you and continue to trust you will make good solid decisions.

[Gary Kozuma2]

Hi Rhonda,

Your post is very well thought out and I hope that IKF does start to embrace the racer more. I do have a couple of questions I guess cause I'm a RR newbie.
#1 is what is "two places to race" mean? and
#2 is you stated 26 classes, but how many races per day does that equate to, and would you have more than 2 classes in the same race?

Best regards,

Gary K.

[Rhonda Mims-Brown]

Hi Charlie - Thanks for the input. Creating a class structure allowing opportunity for a second same or similar class for the racer is exactly what we are trying to recommend. We are also trying to shift things more in line with rules for cross over organizational participation so the racers and promoters win. If it's scheduled properly, I believe it will work. We've taken a close look at what others (as your area) are doing and trying to go that direction. Yes, 26 is a lot of classes, but no where near what you all are doing.

Our plan institutes the most popular regional and local option classes into the national structure. Promoters pay fees for every class, local options,regional and national at sanctioned points events. This way, they'll get more money back for awards and it's still not sinking in to all. I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall daily with this concept.

In addition, the way IKF has structured their system for the implementation of classes makes it almost impossible to progress. Maybe it works for Sprint or Speedway, but not for Road Racing.

Perhaps I'm the blind and stupid one here, but I'll keep pressing for a while anyway. I'm only trying to get everyone working together for a better way than dropping classes and eliminating entries from those classes. They all add up to total dollars for the promoter.

It is indeed frustrating!

[Rhonda Mims-Brown]

Hi Gary -

To answer your questions: "another place to run" is offering second class with very slight changes like a light and heavy version. Some of the classes are run in groups and scored separately. The structure of the schedule allows most of the classes to be run on separate days. For example, Yamaha Light would be run on Saturday and Yamaha Laydown Heavy on Sunday. If Yamaha Laydown Light were run in a group class, it would be combined with for example, a sit up class of similar speed. Hope this explains.

[Deborah Davidson-Harpur]

I would be interested to know how the IKF Road Race Committee members feel about this issue.

There are several of them that are members of this list, any of you care to give your input, or are you saving it for the Oct. meeting?

[Rhonda Mims-Brown]

I am more than eager to work with all of the committee members as I have been to keep us all moving in a direction to get something positive accomplished.

As as a long standing member of IKF and former advisory committee member, I feel we have the right to try to keep everyone talking, making adjustments, and MOVING FORWARD, not tabling something for another time and then it gets forgotten about until the same time next year! Unfortunately, not all committee members pay attention to this discussion group as do the majority of IKF Road Racers.

Also, an important note regarding our structure is that IT DOES NOT AFFECT ANYONES PERFORMANCE CAPABILITY ON THE TRACK! There are individual proposals each of the committee members wanted included and they can be hashed out, but it DOES NOT change the basis of the structure.

Overall, I see a bunch of small hurdles which can be overcome if everyone works together and keeps an open mind for what's best for the country as a whole.

Although it would be hard to pull off, implementing this plan for 2002 would be a perfect opportunity to test it in a region where the nationals are situated in the middle part of the country. The timing for this type of change under the current climate is a perfect opportunity I'd hate to see us miss out on.

[Debbie Kuntze]

OK, here's some of my thoughts.
On the 26 classes. It looks great on a three day schedule for a national, but it dilutes the heck out of the classes that exsit on your normal race weekends. How is a club to lump them all together? What about the club's who are forced to rent $8000 to $12000 per day tracks and have to do a one day series? Remember an IKF sanctioned event has to have these classes available through out the year, not just for the national week.
For the extra classes, what exactly is their "purpose" beyond, another place to run? Granted if I drive any distance to a National Race I want to run as much as possible, but for local club racing, generally no one runs more than two classes in a weekend (unless you're 18). And those classes are on the schedule now for people to run in more than two places on any given weekend and with the same kart and engine, especially a Yamaha Sprinter. I am more in favor of cutting some of the redunt classes and allowing 2 or more "local option" classes to be run for the Duffy. The hosting club gets to offer more and for the rest of the year, the class structure is workable for a 1 or 2 day event.

I agree, about the proposal system to the fact it doesn't work, but what I see doesn't work is the timelyness of them. There are three IKF meetings per year and issues need to be hashed out, thought about and some take more work then the current time frame allows. Some items need to be acted on quickly. But, the members should always be able to express their concerns and thoughts for any proposal. Also, we have all this "speed" for communicating, might as well put it to use! The committees are the ones who should be saying yes or no to any item. If it concerns a major safety or competitiveness issue then it should go before the board for a vote. The board should be watching the bottom line and let the committees do the job. (Now how the committees should get their info and how a person should be qualified to be on the committee is another story for another post)

Well, that's my comments so far. Deb K

[Charlie Tackett]

I know we would all like to have fewer classes and bigger classes, but sometimes you have got to do what you got to do to survive.

Many comment on series back here having 40-50 classes. WHile that may be right, it is also not an accurate statement. Many of those are duplicate classes. The exact same class run twice, once on Saturday and again on Sunday. Each is an entirely separate class for awards/points, but they are identical. This allows a racer to come and race in two classes without making any changes at all to his kart. Some classes have minor variations. Such as light being run one day and medium or havy the next. And attempts are generally made to seprate classes so changes cna be made. IF someone wanted to run laydown Yamaha pipe and then two periods later run laydown can, they can do so with only changing the pipe to a can. Of course, this may mean you have 400 entries, but in reality may only have 250 individual drivers or something to that effect. For those that don't want to race the whole weekend, it allows them to choose which of the two days they want to come out to race.

SOme classes are indeed very small and end up with maybe 4-5 classes out on the trasck during the same session. Afterall, this is enduro racing on big wide tracks. SOme of the best racing I have seen watching Ted over the years is when he was dicing back and forht the whole race..with someone in a different class! Ever watch Sebring or LeMans? Multiple classes all out there at once. Does make drivers have to pay attention and think some times, but has never been a real big deal. Other classes are large enough that they get there own session.

It most certainly would be nice to see more universal rules for the common national clases. Traveling about from one series or sanctioning body to another can be a real pain in the behind!! Especially when you find out about differnet rules at sign in.....or somebody changes the rules the morning of your race!(Right Rhonda, )

Developing universal rules nationwide for the majority of classes would go a long way towards teh developement of a single national road racing organization and perhaps true national champions...not "national" east-middle-west champions. I applaud anyone's efforts that moves things in that direction.

[Donald Dump]

Having just arrived from the East I take exception to the comment that most people only race once a day. As a dedicated Yamaha laydown guy (and we shall say of mature years), I like many who love racing will race what ever is offered. In the East the Yamaha is offered at two weights with a pipe, three weights with Sportsman Can, and two weights with a Piston Port Can. A lot of classes but they are all well represented. There is much hussling in the pits to change from one class to another. With several folks racing up to three times a day. Not being a great mechanic (tend to make mistakes under pressure) I bring two karts to the track so I can race at least twice a day. No the number of classes is not the issue. But getting people involved with karting in the first place so that classes can be supported. The particpation is low in the West so of course the number of classes that can be supported is lower. But pick those classes with care so that new comers have a place to start and don't become frustrated and leave.

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: Donald Dump ]

[Saro Marcarian]

Why create 2 identical classes when the INTENT of creating the second class is to merely allow a second day's racing?

Instead of KT Light and Yamaha 100cc PP Light (I don't really know what they're called but you get the idea), couldn't we just have KT Light and score / accumulate points for Saturday / Sunday racers seperately? Does that make sense?

Look at it this way... NASCAR runs certain tracks twice a year (Daytona?). Once it's the Daytona 500. Next time it's the Pepsi 400. Not a different class... Just a different name for the race.

My point (weak as it may seem) is just that maybe we shouldn't confuse the issues of 'more classes' vs 'less classes' with more RACES or more TRACK TIME - which I figure most people would want.

If it's not a real, distinct, non-superfluous class, let's not add it. Wanna run 2 days? KT Light Saturday, KT Light Sunday. Same CLASS. Same RULES. Different score sheet.

It may sound anal but we need to start SAYING / Writing / Printing what we MEAN instead of imagining that everyone will just figure it out.

-Saro

[Larry Dobbs]

I need and want to run two or more classes or heats per day and I only have one kart. We put everyone in a race as long as their kart passes tech. My point is, people just starting out will be placed in a class no matter what kart they bring and as long as there are at least two races/heats (ie heavy and light or heat 1 and heat 2, etc.)per day to run, most people can live with it.

[Jimmy John]

RR people are lost. 15 classes max are needed. Racers will find what fits them and go racing. To many classes and to many wanta bees running this division.